I love being Apostolic!

[kclee4jc]

I have conversed with liberal minded Pentecostals enough to make this observation. You have taken on the same mindset as the rest of the world toward religion and truth. Basically, believe what you want, do what you want, just don’t impose it. If you wanna live holy go ahead. Just don’t tell us we have to or undermine our relationship with God if we chose to ignore biblical truth. If you wanna baptize in Jesus Name, that’s fine. Just don’t say it’s the only way to be born again. It’s the same mindset of the world, to tolerate Jesus as long as it isn’t exclusively Jesus. Myrlie Evers gave a perfect demonstration of this mindset in her invocation at the Inauguration. Closing was “In Jesus’ name and the name of all who are holy and right we pray.” Sure its fine to mention Jesus, as long as you leave room for every other supposed deity as well.
I count all who have been baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost as my brother and sister, regardless of how much we disagree. I love you and don’t want to see any of you lost. But I cannot and will not say that these things are secondary. I cannot say they are unnecessary. The majority of those on this forum have taken on the mindset of the world which is tolerance of everything but truth. The same spirit of the world which the Bible calls enmity against God. I know that what I say is offensive, but I assure you my intent is not to offend.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I have conversed with liberal minded Pentecostals enough to make this observation. You have taken on the same mindset as the rest of the world toward religion and truth. Basically, believe what you want, do what you want, just don’t impose it. If you wanna live holy go ahead. Just don’t tell us we have to or undermine our relationship with God if we chose to ignore biblical truth. If you wanna baptize in Jesus Name, that’s fine. Just don’t say it’s the only way to be born again. It’s the same mindset of the world, to tolerate Jesus as long as it isn’t exclusively Jesus. Myrlie Evers gave a perfect demonstration of this mindset in her invocation at the Inauguration. Closing was “In Jesus’ name and the name of all who are holy and right we pray.” Sure its fine to mention Jesus, as long as you leave room for every other supposed deity as well.
I count all who have been baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost as my brother and sister, regardless of how much we disagree. I love you and don’t want to see any of you lost. But I cannot and will not say that these things are secondary. I cannot say they are unnecessary. The majority of those on this forum have taken on the mindset of the world which is tolerance of everything but truth. The same spirit of the world which the Bible calls enmity against God. I know that what I say is offensive, but I assure you my intent is not to offend.

My simple question to you is do you think because of your long list of rules that you are holy, and that your righteousness is not like a filthy rag before God?????

Those rules will not save you, I know personally those who live the part on the outside but yet are struggling with sin and or are active in purposeful sin. Not much different from the Baptist down the street who are lost just because they don't know the truth.

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

My simple question to you is do you think because of your long list of rules that you are holy, and that righteousness is not like a filthy rag before God?????

Those rules will not save you, I know personally those who live the part on the outside but yet are struggling with sin and or are active in purposeful sin. Not much different from the Baptist down the street who are lost just because they don't know the truth.

No sir. First off righteousness is not like a filthy rag before God...but my own righteousness is. His rightheousness is his very essance. It's his righteousness in me that makes me holy. That "long list of rules'' protects his righteousness from being marred by the world and the wickedness of my own flesh. Of course some of them, such as uncut hair, are simply commandments of God. Disobedience is unrighteousness.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

No sir. First off righteousness is not like a filthy rag before God...but my own righteousness is. His rightheousness is his very essance. It's his righteousness in me that makes me holy. That "long list of rules'' protects his righteousness from being marred by the world and the wickedness of my own flesh. Of course some of them, such as uncut hair, are simply commandments of God. Disobedience is unrighteousness.

I corrected my typo. I see we could spin this top all day long. You are a very young man and you are doing what you to know to chase and carry the Cross of Christ and good for you.

So I will follow one of my favorite scriptures: Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

[trialedbyfire]

My response is in bold.

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

My pastor preached a tremendous message Sunday night on keeping our Apostolic inheritance. It really stirred me. He preached about how Naboth refused to sell out his vineyard and that many in the OP movement are selling their vineyard.

I would like to contend that if the Apostles were alive today they would continue to be champions of the following tenents!

They would teach the Oneness of God and against the doctrine of trinitarianism.

Yes.

They would teach the absoulute necessity of the fulfillment of Acts 2:38 Salvation.

Yes.

They would teach Separation from the world and a holiness lifestyle.

Yes.

They would teach against television!

Until they saw Saturday cartoons.

They'd be hooked.


They would teach against Apostolic ladies cutting or dying their hair.

...still not convinced.

They would teach short hair on men.

Yes.

They would teach against cosmetics.

Until they saw Nanci Pelosi. After that they'd start teaching the need for burqas.

They would teach that ladies should wear dresses/ skirts and men should wear pants.

They'd have to buy some pants first, before they'd preach about them.

They would teach against organized sports.

As long as they don't become Pittsburgh Steelers fans I have hope of being Heaven bound.

They would teach against jewelry of any kind.

Then they'd need cell phones to tell the time.

They would teach that the knees need to be covered at ALL times when in public.

Probably.

They would probably even teach sleeves AT LEAST to the elbow.

They won't be preaching in Arizona in the Summer time then.

[trialedbyfire]

You know the more I live, and the more I experience churches with "hard core standards", the less and less I think of them. Even some of the things I used to believe I tend now just to ignore as a non-issue. I don't see a problem with having a television in your home (never did). I don't see the difference between television and internet and other forms of entertainment/information/technology. I don't believe pagans worshiping trees has anything to do with Christmas (I never believed that one). I never believed in holy magic hair and uncut hair doctrine, but the PAW doesn't teach and never taught that.

But I think sometimes we run into a bind as Apostolics, because we do so much to defend our "Apostolicyness" that we miss the mark. I'm new to the UPC, but since I've been in I've experienced for the first time seeing young ladies who have worn jean skirts ALL their life but aren't saved BY ANY stretch of the imagination. And I just wonder, why? Why are you wearing a jean skirt and have hair down to your hind-parts and nobody taught you how to pray?

You can't answer basic Bible questions? But you sure can tell me why Apostolics don't cut their hair, and can repeat word for word the lyrics to "I'm a Pentecostal". I've had this issue for a while. I by no means question the Apostolic Doctrine. I by no means question the necessity of baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. What I'm saying is the more I'm "obedient" to standards that I'm not sure are in scripture, but I'm obedient to them anyway, the more I honestly question their validity and importance. I'm an observant person, and I've been observing the church for the past few years, and I've been talking to God about A LOT. I don't want to become a pastor and use my authority to say "because you didn't run around the church when I did, you're not spiritual enough". I think there are a whole lot of fictitious old Pentecostal anecdotes and fables that are rotting the movement at the core, and not enough justifying what we do and "don't do" with the pure and unadulterated word of God. Not enough teaching but there's a whole lot of story telling going on over the pulpit. We can't have our young people running around telling people "my pastor said you're going to Hell because..." and expect the world to come on and get them a "dose of the Ghost".

Anyway...

My rant is done... kind of got off topic... LOL

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

You know the more I live, and the more I experience churches with "hard core standards", the less and less I think of them. Even some of the things I used to believe I tend now just to ignore as a non-issue. I don't see a problem with having a television in your home (never did). I don't see the difference between television and internet and other forms of entertainment/information/technology. I don't believe pagans worshiping trees has anything to do with Christmas (I never believed that one). I never believed in holy magic hair and uncut hair doctrine, but the PAW doesn't teach and never taught that.

But I think sometimes we run into a bind as Apostolics, because we do so much to defend our "Apostolicyness" that we miss the mark. I'm new to the UPC, but since I've been in I've experienced for the first time seeing young ladies who have worn jean skirts ALL their life but aren't saved BY ANY stretch of the imagination. And I just wonder, why? Why are you wearing a jean skirt and have hair down to your hind-parts and nobody taught you how to pray?

You can't answer basic Bible questions? But you sure can tell me why Apostolics don't cut their hair, and can repeat word for word the lyrics to "I'm a Pentecostal". I've had this issue for a while. I by no means question the Apostolic Doctrine. I by no means question the necessity of baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. What I'm saying is the more I'm "obedient" to standards that I'm not sure are in scripture, but I'm obedient to them anyway, the more I honestly question their validity and importance. I'm an observant person, and I've been observing the church for the past few years, and I've been talking to God about A LOT. I don't want to become a pastor and use my authority to say "because you didn't run around the church when I did, you're not spiritual enough". I think there are a whole lot of fictitious old Pentecostal anecdotes and fables that are rotting the movement at the core, and not enough justifying what we do and "don't do" with the pure and unadulterated word of God. Not enough teaching but there's a whole lot of story telling going on over the pulpit. We can't have our young people running around telling people "my pastor said you're going to Hell because..." and expect the world to come on and get them a "dose of the Ghost".

Anyway...

My rant is done... kind of got off topic... LOL

Yeah, what you said.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

You know the more I live, and the more I experience churches with "hard core standards", the less and less I think of them. Even some of the things I used to believe I tend now just to ignore as a non-issue. I don't see a problem with having a television in your home (never did). I don't see the difference between television and internet and other forms of entertainment/information/technology. I don't believe pagans worshiping trees has anything to do with Christmas (I never believed that one). I never believed in holy magic hair and uncut hair doctrine, but the PAW doesn't teach and never taught that.

But I think sometimes we run into a bind as Apostolics, because we do so much to defend our "Apostolicyness" that we miss the mark. I'm new to the UPC, but since I've been in I've experienced for the first time seeing young ladies who have worn jean skirts ALL their life but aren't saved BY ANY stretch of the imagination. And I just wonder, why? Why are you wearing a jean skirt and have hair down to your hind-parts and nobody taught you how to pray?

You can't answer basic Bible questions? But you sure can tell me why Apostolics don't cut their hair, and can repeat word for word the lyrics to "I'm a Pentecostal". I've had this issue for a while. I by no means question the Apostolic Doctrine. I by no means question the necessity of baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. What I'm saying is the more I'm "obedient" to standards that I'm not sure are in scripture, but I'm obedient to them anyway, the more I honestly question their validity and importance. I'm an observant person, and I've been observing the church for the past few years, and I've been talking to God about A LOT. I don't want to become a pastor and use my authority to say "because you didn't run around the church when I did, you're not spiritual enough". I think there are a whole lot of fictitious old Pentecostal anecdotes and fables that are rotting the movement at the core, and not enough justifying what we do and "don't do" with the pure and unadulterated word of God. Not enough teaching but there's a whole lot of story telling going on over the pulpit. We can't have our young people running around telling people "my pastor said you're going to Hell because..." and expect the world to come on and get them a "dose of the Ghost".

Anyway...

My rant is done... kind of got off topic... LOL

Very thoughtful post TBF.

I sincerely pray that none of the hard-core Apostolics ever experience the street code of sinners.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I have conversed with liberal minded Pentecostals enough to make this observation. You have taken on the same mindset as the rest of the world toward religion and truth. Basically, believe what you want, do what you want, just don’t impose it. If you wanna live holy go ahead. Just don’t tell us we have to or undermine our relationship with God if we chose to ignore biblical truth. If you wanna baptize in Jesus Name, that’s fine. Just don’t say it’s the only way to be born again. It’s the same mindset of the world, to tolerate Jesus as long as it isn’t exclusively Jesus. Myrlie Evers gave a perfect demonstration of this mindset in her invocation at the Inauguration. Closing was “In Jesus’ name and the name of all who are holy and right we pray.” Sure its fine to mention Jesus, as long as you leave room for every other supposed deity as well.
I count all who have been baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost as my brother and sister, regardless of how much we disagree. I love you and don’t want to see any of you lost. But I cannot and will not say that these things are secondary. I cannot say they are unnecessary. The majority of those on this forum have taken on the mindset of the world which is tolerance of everything but truth. The same spirit of the world which the Bible calls enmity against God. I know that what I say is offensive, but I assure you my intent is not to offend.

Great post!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Great post!

I would call it an "ok" post, not a particularly great one. Just an ok one. Sort of like how people call the wall in China the "Great Wall of China". We have a wall around our back yard and it's an "ok wall", not great, just ok. kclee4j's post was more like the wall which encircles our yard, which is to say "ok", NOT like the wall that runs the length of the nation of China, which is truly great.