In light of the incident at TPC...

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath

There seems to be a pattern of those who pastor at large or mega churches getting ahead of themselves and falling into some type of scandal.

Why are pastors of large or mega churches always falling into sin? I really think there should be some kind of limit placed on the numbers of members per church. Once the church reaches that limit, then a new church should be started. Also I really think all pastors should be placed on a fixed salary. Just look at the apostles. Did any of them live lavishly? Did any of them pastors thousands of people? What do you think?

What a bizarre post. Limit placed on members per church? That is nuts. 3,000 were added to the church on the day of Pentecost. Guess they should have turned away the last 2700.

You certainly paint with a broad brush when you ask "why are pastors of large or mega churches ALWAYS falling into sin". The vast majority of pastors of large or mega churches do not fall into sin.

[Evenuntodeath]

Originally Posted by CC1

What a bizarre post. Limit placed on members per church? That is nuts. 3,000 were added to the church on the day of Pentecost. Guess they should have turned away the last 2700.

You certainly paint with a broad brush when you ask "why are pastors of large or mega churches ALWAYS falling into sin". The vast majority of pastors of large or mega churches do not fall into sin.

They don't? Funny, because I see them on the news everyday(no, they are not all UPC). The fact is money and power are tools for corruption, even the bible teaches this. Again, I don't know any biblical reference to where the apostles has excess to large sums of money and pastored over thousands of people. The closest biblical reference I can find to this are the pharisees.

[bishoph]

Personally, I believe in "sonshine accounting." (This term was coined by Pastor Robert Stewart in Miami FL) Which in basic terms is: at minimum, every quarter a report is given to the church of every penny that has come into the church.....and how every penny was spent. Such as:

Income
1. The total of All tithes
2. The total of all offerings
3. The total of all "special" offerings, gifts etc
4. Grand Total

Expenditures:
1. All salaries (not listed separately as staff members deserve some privacy IMO)
2. Recurring obligations: such as mortgage, utilities, insurance, etc
3. Benevolent giving (totals again to protect the privacy of those helped)
4. Any and all other expenditures

In this manner people may have questions, but they are questions of information not suspicion. When a congregation has to asked where/how much came in and how/where was it spent there is an element of distrust/suspicion. However, if open and honest accountability is present the only question could be why was it spent for _________________. Then one is not asking from a place of suspicion but rather from a desire to understand why.

Personally, I do not believe that a pastor should live in a house that is far above the average saint in his/her church. Nor should they drive a vehicle that is far above the average in their congregation. IMHO we have forgotten the reason for our calling. If we really believe in reaching the lost, why do we need million dollar homes, $100,000 cars, and exorbitant lifestyles. Are we building the kingdom.....or an empire?

I am not saying that a pastor cannot/should not live well.......but excess is one of the greatest hinderances to reaching the harvest.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

House churching is the answer. It's biblical, it doesn't present lavish wealth for ministry, it allows the entire body of Christ to operate in ministry, and it limits the size of the congregation to something reasonable.

You would likely love our church, everyone is a member of house church, and in community with a small group. Pastor doesn't think too highly of himself, though he is very good at his job, and has four or five degrees.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by CC1

What a bizarre post. Limit placed on members per church? That is nuts. 3,000 were added to the church on the day of Pentecost. Guess they should have turned away the last 2700.

You certainly paint with a broad brush when you ask "why are pastors of large or mega churches ALWAYS falling into sin". The vast majority of pastors of large or mega churches do not fall into sin.

Actually I believe it has merit

But let's be clear. He was not advocating not allowing people to be saved. He was advocating a local church not becoming a Mega Church. In other words, when it reaches a certain number then it's time to start another local church.

Considering the first church met in homes, it's safe to assume each one did not grow so large that they had to raise funds and build a large building. Instead they met in other homes

[josh]

Couple of good answers by CC1 and triumphant1.

Although position and power bring temptations, the answer is simple

Billy Graham is probably the biggest religious name in our time, yet he maintained a reputation for sterling ethics and character. How? Living according to the principle of accountability.

That's the Bible way! Accountability! Accountability is voluntary, so God obviously recognized that some men would opt out and crash. However, He didn't change His principles for the exceptions.

You can lock a man down, control his every penny, and if he lacks an inner desire to be accountable he will find a way to let you down.

[Evenuntodeath]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Actually I believe it has merit

But let's be clear. He was not advocating not allowing people to be saved. He was advocating a local church not becoming a Mega Church. In other words, when it reaches a certain number then it's time to start another local church.

Considering the first church met in homes, it's safe to assume each one did not grow so large that they had to raise funds and build a large building. Instead they met in other homes

"He" is a she.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath

"He" is a she.

Then why did you use a He smiley and not a SHE smiley?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

.....that, and just as no one will take my guns, NO ONE will take the Lincoln that your average pastor drives (those who oversee churches of 300+).

Lincolns? Really? That's the vehicle of choice for pastors?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Evenuntodeath

I do agree that pastors of big and small churches fall into sin. The scary part is, I think small churches are very vunerable to predators for the simple fact the smaller population is easier to control and they can get away with doing their dirt for years and years. Usually, the bigger the church, the more likely lawsuits and criminal charges are filed because word gets around which attracts media attention. However, I've know of small churches where there was a problem with child predators and it was never reported, this person just dissappeared, most likely to prey on other children in an unsuspecting church.

However, I hear men of god who seemed to start out with good intentions, yet as the church grows and his salary grows, he fall into some sin concerning money or adultery. This is my issue with large and mega churches. It appeared the pastor is blessed financially, but really he is being led away by greed and material things.


The bible says money is the root of all evil. Yes, God blessed people like Job financially, but I don't really thing the NT teaches that ANY christian should live in excess, or have millions of dollars at their disposal. None of the people I've seen who God allowed to prosper were blessed in excess.




Exactly!

The LOVE of money is the root of all evil...not money is the root of all evil