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10-01-2012, 06:08 PM
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
He didn't say that on this video clip. It was on another clip regarding gifting or something, posted either here or NFCF.
There isn't any difference between the two statements you posted. I've seen you try to explain that before and it doesn't make a lick of sense. You can't leave salvational off of either statement. It is a salvational issue because Romans says it is. If you don't have the Holy Ghost, you do not belong to Him. That means you can't make heaven. Heaven is a salvational issue.
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It may not make a "lick of sense" to you but it does to a lot of people. My point is that if you are going to quote people at least do it accurately. The distinction between what you quote them as saying and what they may have really said may not mean anything to you but it may to a lot of other people. I am sure you would not want to be misquoted.
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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10-01-2012, 06:43 PM
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Isaiah 56:4-5
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SOUTH ZION
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I think he said the baptism of the Holy Ghost, as in tongues. That was a long time ago.
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10-01-2012, 08:37 PM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
It may not make a "lick of sense" to you but it does to a lot of people. My point is that if you are going to quote people at least do it accurately. The distinction between what you quote them as saying and what they may have really said may not mean anything to you but it may to a lot of other people. I am sure you would not want to be misquoted.
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Okay, I see I should have had the exact quote. I thought what I posted was the quote, but I see it would be better to be totally exact. I have no idea how I would be able to locate the clip again. Isn't it Sherri that teaches that the Holy Ghost is for empowerment, but not necessary for salvation?
So, since whatever was said makes sense to a lot of people, in your opinion, would you mind explaining it again?
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10-01-2012, 10:58 PM
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Okay, I see I should have had the exact quote. I thought what I posted was the quote, but I see it would be better to be totally exact. I have no idea how I would be able to locate the clip again. Isn't it Sherri that teaches that the Holy Ghost is for empowerment, but not necessary for salvation?
So, since whatever was said makes sense to a lot of people, in your opinion, would you mind explaining it again?
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I probably will not be the best wordsmith at midnight after a long day so others can help me if they see this.
Generally my understanding is that One Steppers believe that there is an infilling of the Holy Spirit at conversion that happens upon repentance and asking God to save you that is seperate from the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues that is an empowerment after one accepts Christ as their savior.
That is why if you are going to quote a one stepper (or anybody else for that matter) it is important to do so correctly because words mean things!
I am pretty certain that JS nor anybody else I know of would not say that the Holy Spirit is only for empowerment while they would pretty certainly say the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit is after initial salvation and for empowerment.
While you do not agree with the distinction never the less it is important to be accurate. What you did was the same as some ignorant trinitarians claiming that Oneness folks are "Jesus Only" (of course in fairness there are some ignorant Oneness folks who are "Jesus Only" - LOL)
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Last edited by CC1; 10-02-2012 at 12:04 AM.
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10-01-2012, 11:19 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Well, regardless, his speaking style hasn't changed since I meet him when he was 18 or 19.
However, I didn't agree with him when he said, "the Holy Ghost is for empowerment and is not salvational". I don't know how he reconciles that opinion with Romans 8:9. I don't know how anyone can. |
Yes its very simple when you see the truth of Romans 8:9. Receiving the Holy Ghost IS the baptism of the Spirit.
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10-02-2012, 04:16 AM
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God's Son
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,743
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Can Jesus live in your heart without the Holy Spirit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
He didn't say that on this video clip. It was on another clip regarding gifting or something, posted either here or NFCF.
There isn't any difference between the two statements you posted. I've seen you try to explain that before and it doesn't make a lick of sense. You can't leave salvational off of either statement. It is a salvational issue because Romans says it is. If you don't have the Holy Ghost, you do not belong to Him. That means you can't make heaven. Heaven is a salvational issue.
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__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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10-02-2012, 06:15 AM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I probably will not be the best wordsmith at midnight after a long day so others can help me if they see this.
Generally my understanding is that One Steppers believe that there is an infilling of the Holy Spirit at conversion that happens upon repentance and asking God to save you that is seperate from the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues that is an empowerment after one accepts Christ as their savior.
That is why if you are going to quote a one stepper (or anybody else for that matter) it is important to do so correctly because words mean things!
I am pretty certain that JS nor anybody else I know of would not say that the Holy Spirit is only for empowerment while they would pretty certainly say the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit is after initial salvation and for empowerment.
While you do not agree with the distinction never the less it is important to be accurate. What you did was the same as some ignorant trinitarians claiming that Oneness folks are "Jesus Only" (of course in fairness there are some ignorant Oneness folks who are "Jesus Only" - LOL)
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Thanks, this is the view I thought you were speaking of - one-stepper. That means that I didn't misquote JS, and can only disagree with him on his position.
We've already covered the one and three stepper view, ad nauseam, so there isn't any point of going around that tree once again.
The only thing I can say is that it doesn't make sense to say you are "saved initially" and then empowered, at some point, with the Spirit. In the first place, the Bible says you NEVER, at any time, belonged to God without having His Spirit dwelling in you.
Your view would bring the idea of two separate conversions and I certainly do not see that in the scriptures.
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10-02-2012, 06:16 AM
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Not riding the train
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 48,544
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple
Yes its very simple when you see the truth of Romans 8:9. Receiving the Holy Ghost IS the baptism of the Spirit. |
Yes, very simple. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
Can Jesus live in your heart without the Holy Spirit?
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Yes, if you are a Baptist, but I'm not a Baptist. 
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10-02-2012, 07:11 AM
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Administrator
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Thanks, this is the view I thought you were speaking of - one-stepper. That means that I didn't misquote JS, and can only disagree with him on his position.
We've already covered the one and three stepper view, ad nauseam, so there isn't any point of going around that tree once again.
The only thing I can say is that it doesn't make sense to say you are "saved initially" and then empowered, at some point, with the Spirit. In the first place, the Bible says you NEVER, at any time, belonged to God without having His Spirit dwelling in you.
Your view would bring the idea of two separate conversions and I certainly do not see that in the scriptures.
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PO, I am not following you. My post showed EXACTLY why I believe you misquoted. I believe as a one stepper he would definitely think that the Holy Spirit is "for salvation". That the "baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues" is a later empowerment. So for you to say that he said the Holy Spirit is only an empowerment would not be true. He said the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit was an empowerment.
Your doctrinal position treats being filled with the Holy Spirit the same as being baptized in the Holy Spirit where one stepper's do not. You can at least represent their position by quoting them correctly on their doctrine.
You are missing the point that one steppers DO believe one is filled with the Holy Spirit when saved. However they don't believe that is the same thing as baptism in the Holy Spirit.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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10-02-2012, 08:28 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 110
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Re: Jonathan Suber, Good Preachin'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Thanks, this is the view I thought you were speaking of - one-stepper. That means that I didn't misquote JS, and can only disagree with him on his position.
We've already covered the one and three stepper view, ad nauseam, so there isn't any point of going around that tree once again.
The only thing I can say is that it doesn't make sense to say you are "saved initially" and then empowered, at some point, with the Spirit. In the first place, the Bible says you NEVER, at any time, belonged to God without having His Spirit dwelling in you.
Your view would bring the idea of two separate conversions and I certainly do not see that in the scriptures.
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