Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 05-16-2012, 11:27 PM
Sam's Avatar
Sam Sam is offline
Jesus' Name Pentecostal


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Let me ask you a question.

Do you think it is ok for church members to sit on Pentecostal pews receiving welfare?
Unemployment compensation, food stamps, housing assistance, social security, child care, medicaid, etc. are all legal programs and the only way some people can exist. I know there are cheaters and people who play the system but we gotta do something to keep some of these folks alive.

I paid into Social Security from the time I was 16 until I started collecting it at age 62.
Every month Medicare premiums are taken out of my pension check and out of our Social Security checks.
I am not ashamed to receive Social Security nor Medicare.

Last edited by Sam; 05-16-2012 at 11:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-17-2012, 10:50 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
I believe it is obligatory for us as individuals and for our churches as groups to feed, clothe, and house the needy. I do not believe it is a function of government.
Here's an interesting article on "biblical justice": http://studylight.org/dic/hbd/view.cgi?number=T3548

Here are exerpts from the article:
Nature of justice Justice has two major aspects. First, it is the standard by which penalties are assigned for breaking the obligations of the society. Second, justice is the standard by which the advantages of social life are handed out, including material goods, rights of participation, opportunities, and liberties. It is the standard for both punishment and benefits and thus can be spoken of as a plumb line. “I shall use justice as a plumb-line, and righteousness as a plummet” (Isaiah 28:17, REB).

Often people think of justice in the Bible only in the first sense as God's wrath on evil. This aspect of justice indeed is present, such as the judgment mentioned in John 3:19. Often more vivid words like “wrath” are used to describe punitive justice (Romans 1:18).

Justice in the Bible very frequently also deals with benefits. Cultures differ widely in determining the basis by which the benefits are to be justly distributed. For some it is by birth and nobility. For others the basis is might or ability or merit. Or it might simply be whatever is the law or whatever has been established by contracts. The Bible takes another possibility. Benefits are distributed according to need. Justice then is very close to love and grace. God “executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and… loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing” (Deuteronomy 10:18, NRSV; compare Hosea 10:12; Isaiah 30:18).

Various needy groups are the recipients of justice. These groups include widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick (Job 29:12-17; Psalms 146:7-9; Malachi 3:5). Each of these groups has specific needs which keep its members from being able to participate in aspects of the life of their community. Even life itself might be threatened. Justice involves meeting those needs. The forces which deprive people of what is basic for community life are condemned as oppression (Micah 2:2; Ecclesiastes 4:1). To oppress is to use power for one's own advantage in depriving others of their basic rights in the community (see Mark 12:40). To do justice is to correct that abuse and to meet those needs (Isaiah 1:17). Injustice is depriving others of their basic needs or failing to correct matters when those rights are not met (Jeremiah 5:28; Job 29:12-17). Injustice is either a sin of commission or of omission.
Also,

The most prominent human agent of justice is the ruler. The king receives God's justice and is a channel for it (Psalms 72:1; compare Romans 13:1-2,Romans 13:4). There is not a distinction between a personal, voluntary justice and a legal, public justice. The same caring for the needy groups of the society is demanded of the ruler (Psalms 72:4; Ezekiel 34:4; Jeremiah 22:15-16). Such justice was also required of pagan rulers (Daniel 4:27; Proverbs 31:8-9) .


Most don't realize that the Bible teaches that social justice towards widows, orphans, resident aliens (also called “sojourners” or “strangers”), wage earners, the poor, and prisoners, slaves, and the sick are a national obligation... not a private one.

The nation that neglects these principles as a society has sinned against God.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-17-2012, 11:45 AM
Dordrecht's Avatar
Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,580
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Quote:
The nation that neglects these principles as a society has sinned against God.
But that's not different than any other ungodly institution (or persons).
Besides....there are no Christian nations on the face of the earth...
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:25 PM
acerrak's Avatar
acerrak acerrak is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,664
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Let me ask you a question.

Do you think it is ok for church members to sit on Pentecostal pews receiving welfare?
i dont see a issue with it. The bible declares all good things are from God. That being said God did not invent money, humans did.

Some one should treat it as Gods providence in their Life.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-17-2012, 01:47 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dordrecht View Post
But that's not different than any other ungodly institution (or persons).
Besides....there are no Christian nations on the face of the earth...
So, do you feel that since there are no "Christian nations" today, a society such as ours should not work to provide a social safety net for the widows, orphans, resident aliens, wage earners, the poor, prisoners, slaves, and the sick?

Yes or no?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:24 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,600
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
Unemployment compensation, food stamps, housing assistance, social security, child care, medicaid, etc. are all legal programs and the only way some people can exist. I know there are cheaters and people who play the system but we gotta do something to keep some of these folks alive.

I paid into Social Security from the time I was 16 until I started collecting it at age 62.
Every month Medicare premiums are taken out of my pension check and out of our Social Security checks.
I am not ashamed to receive Social Security nor Medicare.
As for Social Security, I don't know why government officials and others are calling it an entitlement. It could be described more like a retirement insurance. People have paid all their lives into it, by mandate, and more such as medicare tax for the promise of the money when one is unable to work anymore for whatever reason. Nobody should be ashamed for receiving it.

And nobody should be ashamed for receiving unemployment compensation. The employers pay so much into an account for each employee they have...a contribution...mandated.

Yes, as a society we are to help the unfortunate. However, I have been in some churches that have NO benevolent funds...that tell people to get help from the government. This is why I asked the question. Then those churches did little to nothing to help their sister who is struggling alone and has 4 children. Or the widow who lost her husband. I've even heard it preached that the church should not be charged if the widow has so much as even a nephew to take care of her. And...what money she does have, she should tithe it. Come on...where's the compassion?

So...as a whole, I am not against receiving help from the government, but what a person receives most times barely meets the need in the home. This is where the church should show the love of Christ and stand in the gap. Unfortunately, I have not seen enough long-term help given from pentecostal churches to the unfortunate in this area. Each church could have a pantry where people buy extra when they go grocery shopping and contribute. It needn't cost any one person an arm or a leg, but as a whole body, at least one or two families can be helped.
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-17-2012, 02:35 PM
Dordrecht's Avatar
Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,580
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
So, do you feel that since there are no "Christian nations" today, a society such as ours should not work to provide a social safety net for the widows, orphans, resident aliens, wage earners, the poor, prisoners, slaves, and the sick?

Yes or no?
It's not as simple as Yes or no.

For starters I would kick every healthy young guy off the welfare roll.
Aliens....send them back home.
Wage earners? They make money don't they?
The poor....ask why they are poor, because they blow their money on flat screen TV's and dope?
Prisoners? Why are they in jail??
Slaves?? Yeh right!
Sick, yes they need help!
There are not many left on my list!

I am 66 years old and have worked since I was 16.
Not one day have I been out of work!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-17-2012, 04:59 PM
Truthseeker's Avatar
Truthseeker Truthseeker is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,888
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

The problem with todays system is its abused a lot of times. Should only be for those truely in need and inforced. A lot poor people today are not really poor,IMO, they have lifestyle issues.
__________________
Today pull up the little weeds,
The sinful thoughts subdue,
Or they will take the reins themselves
And someday master you. --Anon.


The most deadly sins do not leap upon us, they creep up on us.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-17-2012, 05:13 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,600
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Hey, when I was a kid growing up, there was very little help for us. We couldn't get it.

Daddy was thrown out of work when Studebaker moved up to Canada. He could have had a job if he followed. He opted not to move because with four children, there just wasn't the money. Unemployment was next to nothing. The RCC we belonged to basically did not help.

By the time I was in my mid-teens, daddy found himself without a job again. This time I remember the hunger. There were sometimes a full week before I actually had a meal in my belly. No need in asking the local RCC church...we knew we would get silence.
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-17-2012, 06:25 PM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,178
Re: Abortion/ Same Sex Marriage/ Birth Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
...No need in asking the local RCC church...we knew we would get silence.
RCC is the Catholics? I'm surprised at this. the only food bank in our valley
is inside a Cath Charities, along with other services, and nobody asks those
in need their religion...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sex Before Marriage: Does God Approve? Charnock Fellowship Hall 375 07-31-2018 10:03 AM
Free Birth Control Must Be Offered Cindy Fellowship Hall 7 08-02-2011 05:59 PM
Birth Control Bruce Klein Deep Waters 82 02-14-2009 11:21 AM
Same Sex Marriage Sam Fellowship Hall 0 02-06-2009 06:28 PM
Birth Control...Why Not?? ILG Fellowship Hall 2 09-06-2007 01:21 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.