left upci yr ago and still messed up

[The Matt]

Lord bless you and keep you. Don't let your experience turn you off of all churches. There are some who have modernized. There are some who understand that people are human beings. Church should simply be a place of fellowship, to be built up in the Lord. May the Lord bring joy into your life, in places you never thought imaginable.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

We left about 7 years ago over doctrine. (Has it been that long already??) We were wronged, very wronged and yet, that isn't why we left. We left because we no longer agreed. Since we were pastoring we needed to make a choice whether we could continue to lead people into what we no longer believed. Feeling it would be wrong to do that, we left.

At the time, I thought a couple of months out and all issues would be resolved. Was I ever wrong! I found out that the UPC is in my DNA and will be forever. And I'm okay with that now. There is both good and bad about that.

We haven't attended church regularly in a couple of years. I'm okay with that too. I'm happier now than I ever was when I was in the UPC. It takes time to sort things out in your mind.

Take comfort in the idea that it takes time and you will slowly mend. If you make choices based in logic and in your own mind (what you know to be right), I believe you (and I) will be led the right way.

Peace.

I agree with this too! We've only been gone from the OP and UPC a little over a year, but it feels like an eternity since we've left, with all we've gone through. Almost all of our extended family remain in the UPC or even stricter sects of OP. That makes it really hard when we all get together still!

I have to amen what you've said ILG, even with all that, we are happier now than when we were part of the UPC, although there is sentimentalism involved and that is hard to overcome, but once you have taken the blinders off, it is almost impossible to go back.

If you could take out the judgmentalism and almost manic adherence to the standards issue out of the OP, then perhaps you would have a place where people could be free to apply personal convictions to their own lives, and it would be so much better. But I don't see that changing any time soon.

ILG - are you still writing your book? I remember you had mentioned writing a book about your experiences some time ago...

[ILG]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I agree with this too! We've only been gone from the OP and UPC a little over a year, but it feels like an eternity since we've left, with all we've gone through. Almost all of our extended family remain in the UPC or even stricter sects of OP. That makes it really hard when we all get together still!

I have to amen what you've said ILG, even with all that, we are happier now than when we were part of the UPC, although there is sentimentalism involved and that is hard to overcome, but once you have taken the blinders off, it is almost impossible to go back.

If you could take out the judgmentalism and almost manic adherence to the standards issue out of the OP, then perhaps you would have a place where people could be free to apply personal convictions to their own lives, and it would be so much better. But I don't see that changing any time soon.

ILG - are you still writing your book? I remember you had mentioned writing a book about your experiences some time ago...

I wrote the book last summer. All I have to do is edit it. I want to and I want people to read it. Fear of the people in the book is what keeps me from going further with it right now. I am just not sure how to go through with it.

[Nitehawk013]

So you were in a church, enjoying the worship and presence of God, but you disagreed with the "standards".

Then you leave that church, have not been to church since, feel that God is now silent and isn't speaking to you.

I guess I am just the only crazy one who thinks that maybe, just maybe, the answer to your problem is to go back to church and talk to your Pastor. Let him know you don't agree with standards, but you would rather be in church feeling God than out of church. I know that is just insane advice for this forum since the MO of most here is to do nothing but trash the UPC and traditional OP churches, but you sounded like you were happier when you were in church. So go back.

Or just stay out of church and assume it's ok to not go to church, ok to have bitter feelings about the UPC and those associated withit and ok to just make up your own religion and beliefs on the fly as long as you have others who will say it's ok.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

I wrote the book last summer. All I have to do is edit it. I want to and I want people to read it. Fear of the people in the book is what keeps me from going further with it right now. I am just not sure how to go through with it.

I understand exactly what you are saying... I have wanted to write a book too, but because I have family members still part of it all, it makes it very hard to go forward with it, because it would hurt them so much.

I will pray for you and for wisdom... perhaps you could leave out the names and specific details that would certainly identify the people that you are afraid of hurting... or exposing... or write under an alias?

[NorCal]

I, like you have had issues in the past. But what one must realize is this "Is it worth doing something that I enjoy worth more then the splintering of the branch?" To me, I say no.

As Christians, we must realize that the benefits of this work are only temporary. Meaning, missing sports, clothing, style, etc is not worth missing the benefits of reaching heaven. If there is one thing that I learned is that the cross is sometime to hard for "Christians" to bare.

I think people look at the UPCI as a huge legalistic system, and trust me, some of them can be. But let me tell you, if there is something that you can not give up in this world for the benefits of the next, then you are looking at it in the wrong perspective. You are the one looking at it in a legalistic way, and not in a matter of the heart way.

I am not one that says you have to be Amish/Mennonite to obtain salvation and separation from the world. But, you do need to follow the spirit, and the spirit of the man that God has placed you under (not at a slave or subordinate, but out of respect to the Elder).

If there is one thing that I have learned, is that my relationship with God is between Him and I; relationships with anyone else really does not matter.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I understand exactly what you are saying... I have wanted to write a book too, but because I have family members still part of it all, it makes it very hard to go forward with it, because it would hurt them so much.

I will pray for you and for wisdom... perhaps you could leave out the names and specific details that would certainly identify the people that you are afraid of hurting... or exposing... or write under an alias?

I have no family in the church and fully intend to change all names (that's part of the editing) and not use my real name to sign it. My only concern is that the events could be identifying.

My intent in writing this book is to help and not harm. When I decided to write it, it just flew out of my fingers. I wrote all summer. My family members and a few friends and co-workers have read it and that has all been very positive (but they are not tied to the UPC). It has very much helped in mending some fences with close family who did not understand some of my actions and judgmentalism etc. So, so far, it has been all positive. It was also very healing for me to get it all on paper, go back through all of the events and think about them and say, hey, I wasn't crazy, this all really happened, is all documented and could easily make a very readable book. I felt a strong go a head to write it and share it so far. I am waiting for the go ahead from God and my insides to carry on. I wish I could just publish it (online or otherwise) but I just am unsure of the fallout.

Thanks for understanding. It's a hard decision.

[Nitehawk013]

It's not as if you are forced to give anything up to begin with. Pastors and such are not police. If you cut your hair or wear jeans (women) the "holiness police" don't come and arrest you. No one is hiding in your bushes trying to catch you drinking a beer or watching a movie.

Unless you go to a really really strict and overzealous church, the scenario is pretty much the same. The Pastor preaches his version of holiness for that church and you choose whether to follow it or not. If you don't, you simply won't be holding a position that involves teaching or preaching (or leading in praise sinigng likely). UNless you are attending Epleys church (just teasing sir) you probably arent being told you are going straight to hell for wearing pants or cutting your hair. Your Pastor probably isn't calling you out and embarrassing you in public.

This whole thing get sblown out of proportion MORE by the LIB crowd than the conservatives. I know a number of Pastors who are conservative, yet if you choose to not follow the standards as they teach them you aren't run off or condemned to eternal hell. You simply can't hold a teaching or platform position in the church. The LIB side acts like those who preach standards are out spying on their saints just hoping for a "gotcha" moment to pounce on them and rebuke. It isn't that way and likely hasn't been for 30+ years.

Legalism isn't asking people to have some distinction from the rest of the world that by and large dresses immodestly and carries itself with no class. Legalism is just a buzzword for anything that dares challenge people to be better than the lowest common denominator around them. McDonalds is more legalistic than any church. They will not even employ you inf you refuse to wear their uniform. No church that I have EVER heard of will tell people they cannot attend a service if they refuse to dress like the rest of the church.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

No church that I have EVER heard of will tell people they cannot attend a service if they refuse to dress like the rest of the church.

Maybe not, but they sure do make it quite uncomfortable for you to attend.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

So you were in a church, enjoying the worship and presence of God, but you disagreed with the "standards".

Then you leave that church, have not been to church since, feel that God is now silent and isn't speaking to you.

I guess I am just the only crazy one who thinks that maybe, just maybe, the answer to your problem is to go back to church and talk to your Pastor. Let him know you don't agree with standards, but you would rather be in church feeling God than out of church. I know that is just insane advice for this forum since the MO of most here is to do nothing but trash the UPC and traditional OP churches, but you sounded like you were happier when you were in church. So go back.

Or just stay out of church and assume it's ok to not go to church, ok to have bitter feelings about the UPC and those associated withit and ok to just make up your own religion and beliefs on the fly as long as you have others who will say it's ok.

This is why I left

Not really, but this attitude stinks.