Knowing The Terror Of The Lord

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

You suggest sinners need to know the fear of God, I say His Children and those who call His Name need to be re-acquainted with His Terror and Fire.


His Refining Fire can be terrible when His children are disobedient.

Maybe more Christians, not sinners, but more so-called Christians need to become re-acquainted with the terror of God and His Refining Fire.

Amen. The fear of God is for a believer, you do not convert someone with fear. Yes, you will attract those that resonate with fear already, into a hallucination of a promised eternity someday, but you will not have helped the sinner, thirsty for water now, one little bit.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

We must be reading these verses very differently.

1 John 4: 16-18 16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:16-18

John seems to be saying here the same thing he said here:

He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk , even as he walked . 1 John 2:6

There will be no fear on judgment day for those who are living in this world like Yeshua.

Paul did not say at the day of judgment Christ will just have mercy because of his blood. Rather he said THIS in context:

Wherefore we labour , that, whether present or absent , we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done , whether it be good or bad. 2 Cor. 5:9-10

On this basis the Apostle Paul then says:

11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; 2 Cor 5:11

Paul is obviously addressing Christians. Todays Church members dont consider the wisdom of the Apostles words. He said we LABOR that we might be accepted by Yeshua.

The pop teaching of our day says you need do nothing. Jesus did it all.

I agree with you in respect to the fact that many teach today that we need do nothing to be saved, but just claim the blood of Jesus. This is happening. And it is false teaching, to be sure. BUT without the blood of Jesus, we have nothing. We must have the blood of Jesus applied to our life, and that is the FIRST step to be taken. If only the fear of God is preached, if only the TERROR of the Lord is preached, without teaching about the power of the blood, the sinner remains unchanged in his sin, because there is no hope.

And the point you are trying to make is, preach the TERROR of God, preach respect, preach fear, because there is a fearful day approaching at the judgment seat of Christ. But if all one has ever heard is fear, and has never applied the blood to their life, then nothing has changed.

However, once being taught the importance of the blood, and how to walk each day denying our flesh, and walking in the spirit, the natural occurence that WILL take place is works... and those works will be pleasing to God. Not getting the cart in front of the horse and producing works because of fear, which is also very displeasing to God (think of the Pharisees).

You are right, and I am right, I believe. But it takes the message of what we BOTH are trying to say to be able to walk in the Spirit pleasing to God, and to be able to stand before the judgment day BOLDLY.

The blood is applied to our life, the gift of salvation is accepted, and because of that gift, our lives are forever changed, and works acceptable and pleasing to God come about AS A RESULT of receiving that gift, but those works never achieve salvation, but come about as a result of salvation. Don't get the cart before the horse.

Salvation will produce works pleasing to God, but works will never merit salvation on their own.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Jay

I would say that there are times and places for it. I have seen deep seated rebellion, where they were entrenched in sin, and yet sat on the pew. There are methods for dealing with people, and many pastors refrain from going so far as disfellowshipping a person as they want to continue to reach as long as possible. So they will preach against sin as long as God is willing to deal with the individual.

The method that I believe you are thinking of is if there is a person who has a problem with another person, where first you attempt to make things right, then taking two or three others the second time, and the finally taking it to the church. There are as many variations as there are churches.

But you can't provide Bible for your scenario? Or even early Church historical documents?

Yes! That is the one I was thinking of. So not specifically sin.

[forgivenson]

"Fear of the Lord is the begining of knowledge." Yes, I 'know' the terror of the Lord. It is a very good reason to repent. Then we no longer need fear the terror. If we obey Him, we no longer need live in terror.

[Michael The Disciple]

Kept By The Word

And the point you are trying to make is, preach the TERROR of God, preach respect, preach fear, because there is a fearful day approaching at the judgment seat of Christ. But if all one has ever heard is fear, and has never applied the blood to their life, then nothing has changed.

Did I suggest that all one should ever hear is the fear of God? No. I said this.

1. Love of God
2. Fear of God

Having said that my point is that the thing which Paul said HE KNEW.....the terror of the Lord is a taboo today. Paul said he labored TO BE ACCEPTED at the judgment seat of Christ.

The false distorted teaching now is that you dont need to do that.

[forgivenson]

(Quote) The false distorted teaching now is that you dont need to do that.
I am not so sure I agree. Should we focus on His terror, or should we focus on His Love? I think this is right up there with whether it should be our primary concern to understand the devil or Jesus?
A relative example is at banks....When they teach tellers to identify conterfeit bills, they do not study the fakes....because there can be too many variables. They learn to correctly identify the 'genuine one'.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Did I suggest that all one should ever hear is the fear of God? No. I said this.

1. Love of God
2. Fear of God

Having said that my point is that the thing which Paul said HE KNEW.....the terror of the Lord is a taboo today. Paul said he labored TO BE ACCEPTED at the judgment seat of Christ.

The false distorted teaching now is that you dont need to do that.

And that's what I don't hear taught.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Amen. The fear of God is for a believer, you do not convert someone with fear. Yes, you will attract those that resonate with fear already, into a hallucination of a promised eternity someday, but you will not have helped the sinner, thirsty for water now, one little bit.

What do you mean by "a hallucination of a promised eternity"?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

And that's what I don't hear taught.

If you dont hear that taught good for you. Im trying to reach people with the understanding that the terror of the Lord is a very good thing to know. Paul said because of that he was persuading men.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by forgivenson

(Quote) The false distorted teaching now is that you dont need to do that.
I am not so sure I agree. Should we focus on His terror, or should we focus on His Love? I think this is right up there with whether it should be our primary concern to understand the devil or Jesus?
A relative example is at banks....When they teach tellers to identify conterfeit bills, they do not study the fakes....because there can be too many variables. They learn to correctly identify the 'genuine one'.

Should we not focus on both? Why did Paul an Apostle who wrote most of the New Testament say KNOWING THE TERROR OF THE LORD we persuade men? Do we have a better, clearer revelation of the person and teaching of Christ than he did?

Paul never mentioned the devil in this context. He was talking about the Lord Jesus.