Want to help me pick a new religion?

[The Lemon]

I suppose that reading a balanced and objective approach to your concerns would be refreshing, the biggest issue with that on a forum is that everyone is here for different reasons and are in different places spiritually.

Personally, I can relate to some concerns. It's funny, it seems that in different parts of the country the organizations (like UPCI), are golden...great leadership, no issues etc., while in other parts of the country it is off the hook...interesting.

In my opinion, there comes a point in every Chistians life where their walk with God goes through a challenging season. In some respects I suppose it is the trying of our faith, I fell that we need to have the most intimate and personal of relationships with Jesus. Sometimes, in fact many times, we follow leadership lock step, regardless of understanding. This is done out of obedience, which of course is not all bad; but at some point we must be persuaded ourselves. Things like standards are just one example.

At the end of the day these concerns are rooted deep and are difficult to sort through. I would advise that no matter what disagreements may come, we all must be open with God and be sure we do not put a wall of defense up that would hinder our communication with Him, as well as continue in prayer and study.

I wish there were a better way to relieve your mind and spirit, but having been there myself, the concerns are deeply personal with even deeper roots.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

I suppose that reading a balanced and objective approach to your concerns would be refreshing, the biggest issue with that on a forum is that everyone is here for different reasons and are in different places spiritually.

Personally, I can relate to some concerns. It's funny, it seems that in different parts of the country the organizations (like UPCI), are golden...great leadership, no issues etc., while in other parts of the country it is off the hook...interesting.

In my opinion, there comes a point in every Chistians life where their walk with God goes through a challenging season. In some respects I suppose it is the trying of our faith, I fell that we need to have the most intimate and personal of relationships with Jesus. Sometimes, in fact many times, we follow leadership lock step, regardless of understanding. This is done out of obedience, which of course is not all bad; but at some point we must be persuaded ourselves. Things like standards are just one example.

At the end of the day these concerns are rooted deep and are difficult to sort through. I would advise that no matter what disagreements may come, we all must be open with God and be sure we do not put a wall of defense up that would hinder our communication with Him, as well as continue in prayer and study.

I wish there were a better way to relieve your mind and spirit, but having been there myself, the concerns are deeply personal with even deeper roots.

Just the tea and sympathy helps more than you might realize. Thank you

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Raven

I read, understood, and empathize with all of your 10 conditions. What seems to be happening is, God's talking to you and leading you to another chapter in your life and relationship with Him. Just let it unfold and each day the way and the future will become more clear. These situations come to those who are tired of the status quo and have a quiet but strong spiritual revolution going on within their heart. You have been praying and seeking more of late and this is the result! Your Heavenly Father didn't lead you to this point in your experience with Him to leave you confused. One important warning! Don't be looking for just another church group that fits your criteria because you would soon grow weary of that also. The "change" that is happening is within you and when you accept and experience that change an inner contentment will come that will sustain you wherever you find yourself to be. [ I seldom post anymore but upon reading your question I was compelled to write. If it agrees with your heart, so be it and if not ... throw it out to those goats on your farm. LOL ]

Thank you Raven. Knowing you have walked a mile in uncomfortable shoes gives me comfort in your message.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

What's in Dallas?

Lake Highlands Church is a great church. Website is in my signature. A former Church of Christ (25 years ago) leans orderly Pentecostal in worship.

Pastor has personally mentored over seven gay men for over twenty years, written a book about it. Several are married with children and still attend LHC, some are committed to a celibate life.

He is in London and Ireland this next two weeks by invitation of several churches that want to hear his teaching on ministry to gays, and how the church should be a safe place, but still teach right living.

The media in London is demonizing him as "the homophobic from Texas", threating to protest the meetings. They are really nuts!! Homosexuality is not separated out as a "special" sin, that is unforgivable, at LHC. His mentoring is his calling at a personal level, not the focus of his public ministry.

Doctrine is mostly evangelical, but no heavy trinity focus, not stated in "what we believe". Teaching is scholarly and spiritual, pastor has about six graduate degrees, but is not heady with human education, down to earth and very Jesus centric. He was an attorney prior to full time pastoring.

Life groups are deep fellowship and community, Jesus is the focus of life at LHC. Pastor has been at LHC for almost thirty years.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Raven

I read, understood, and empathize with all of your 10 conditions. What seems to be happening is, God's talking to you and leading you to another chapter in your life and relationship with Him. Just let it unfold and each day the way and the future will become more clear. These situations come to those who are tired of the status quo and have a quiet but strong spiritual revolution going on within their heart. You have been praying and seeking more of late and this is the result! Your Heavenly Father didn't lead you to this point in your experience with Him to leave you confused. One important warning! Don't be looking for just another church group that fits your criteria because you would soon grow weary of that also. The "change" that is happening is within you and when you accept and experience that change an inner contentment will come that will sustain you wherever you find yourself to be. [ I seldom post anymore but upon reading your question I was compelled to write. If it agrees with your heart, so be it and if not ... throw it out to those goats on your farm. LOL ]

I resemble your post, my friend!!!

[AreYouReady?]

Titus2Woman,

My husband and I kept looking for some of these same things you posted for many years in UPCI Churches. After attending three different UPC Churches, we realized that Albert Einstein's definition of insanity is true, that is: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

(I recognize that in some cases for some people, going to a different church makes all the difference in the world. Ask Angela Driver.)

For our family, each church was a replica of the former church with slight differences in attitude and love (or lack thereof...except for the people they wanted to love). Some pastors tell the congregation at the beginning of services to get out of their pews and shake their neighbor's hand. They look like robots doing what they were told to do. We found ourselves feeling like robots also. I do not want to die in a system like this... feeling and acting like a robot, having little love because of a collective attitude about church rules and fear that we may have broken some of them because of our convictions about any particular issue of their standards.

We feel that the love of God should emanate from our hearts because of the joy of the Holy Ghost is living there. Put a bushel over a lit candle...you can't share the light and nobody sees it. It will eventually go out.

My husband is not a "man ordained" preacher, yet he has been studying the Bible for over 30 years. It's in his heart, mind and soul. He meditates on Scripture and asks for understanding and meaning. He ministers to people one on one. The UPCI controls it's ministers on what they may say and do. This is evident by the compelling of them to sign their yearly oath. (which is not a biblical principle) We say that any man or woman who loves God and His Word do not need to be told what to do because that supersedes what the Holy Ghost may teach us. Any sincere person who lives for God will listen to the Holy Ghost and change their lives accordingly. Our fear should be what the Lord, our God thinks of us, not fear of our reputation we may have in the organized church system. It is possible to *backslide* right on a pentecostal pew. I've seen it happen too many times to people who have been attending all their life. I call it a "frozen backslide". Funny term huh? It seems as though they are frozen in time...no love or concern for anybody but their own...hair piled on top of their heads (for women only) and dresses at the right length. But when you try to be friendly, they look at you with that sour look as if to say "Why are you talking to me?" Be gone! If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. I don't want to end up being like that just to stay in a church system.

That being said, I must say that you and your husband must follow what you feel the Holy Spirit is guiding you to do. Examine yourselves fully to see if you are committed enough in your spirits to walk with Christ everyday without the anchor of a man-made organized church system. Be prepared to be in "the wilderness" with Christ for a time. The wilderness walk really is not so bad because for us, it was a time for getting up on our feet and walking like a toddler by ourselves. It is time spent consecrating and reconsecrating our lives to God, just Him and us. A time to regain fellowship with Christ and His principles and good news of the Gospels.

It may be harder for you since you were so active and had much support from the other people. But for us, we walked with God alone while in the UPC organized church system anyway. So it wasn't much difference when we left it.

There are many things you can do to find like-minded fellowship. One man put an ad in the local newspaper seeking people who believed in early-church principles for weekly gatherings for Bible study and worship. Home churches allows for everybody's input in the Bible studies. It's really an awesome thing to be able to exhort and uplift others and they reciprocate to you in a meeting.

You may also have to travel some to other cities or areas from time to time and visit a body of believers for fellowship.

All in all, when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, we must love Christ enough in whatever setting we find ourselves to be living in, to walk with Him regardless of what other people think or do. If you persevere walking with Christ, everyday taking up your cross and following Him, God will reward you beyond your wildest dreams.

I never forget what one old preacher man once said about living for God: "I want to live close enough to the Post Office to get my own mail". That should be food for thought for every born-again Holy Ghost filled believer.

[houston]

Originally Posted by scotty

This is too funny. All of your complaints/descriptions have nothing to do with the UPC. You could have just described any church or religion for that matter.

1. You don't understand the Godhead but don't agree with any way it has been taught. How does this hinder your church life ?

2. Define "maniac", rofl . I am assuming that jumping pews and falling in the floor flopping like a fish out of water was required of you ?

3. As opposed to "suppository" teaching ? lol.

4. How does one "practice" modesty without some sort of guideline ?

5. We have so many classes we can attend that allow us to be apart of the discussion it's not even funny.

6. I am assuming you were pulled aside and told you were backslidden for not being there everytime the doors are open ?

7. This sounds like you need a new pastor,lol.

8. See above.

9. Your church preaches "against" worship on Sunday ?

10. Are these things manditory ? Really ?

Sorry but these are not UPC problems, they are a conflict of interest between you and a pastor/church. I hope you find a happy medium somewhere that suits your christian walk. But I doubt it will make a difference what "doctrinal" church you pick, they all will cross at least a couple of your 10 top problems. UPC or not.

It is a UPC problem BECAUSE it is her UPC problem. Not everybody has the opportunity to attend the POA.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Titus2Woman,

My husband and I kept looking for some of these same things you posted for many years in UPCI Churches. After attending three different UPC Churches, we realized that Albert Einstein's definition of insanity is true, that is: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

(I recognize that in some cases for some people, going to a different church makes all the difference in the world. Ask Angela Driver.)

For our family, each church was a replica of the former church with slight differences in attitude and love (or lack thereof...except for the people they wanted to love). Some pastors tell the congregation at the beginning of services to get out of their pews and shake their neighbor's hand. They look like robots doing what they were told to do. We found ourselves feeling like robots also. I do not want to die in a system like this... feeling and acting like a robot, having little love because of a collective attitude about church rules and fear that we may have broken some of them because of our convictions about any particular issue of their standards.

We feel that the love of God should emanate from our hearts because of the joy of the Holy Ghost is living there. Put a bushel over a lit candle...you can't share the light and nobody sees it. It will eventually go out.

My husband is not a "man ordained" preacher, yet he has been studying the Bible for over 30 years. It's in his heart, mind and soul. He meditates on Scripture and asks for understanding and meaning. He ministers to people one on one. The UPCI controls it's ministers on what they may say and do. This is evident by the compelling of them to sign their yearly oath. (which is not a biblical principle) We say that any man or woman who loves God and His Word do not need to be told what to do because that supersedes what the Holy Ghost may teach us. Any sincere person who lives for God will listen to the Holy Ghost and change their lives accordingly. Our fear should be what the Lord, our God thinks of us, not fear of our reputation we may have in the organized church system. It is possible to *backslide* right on a pentecostal pew. I've seen it happen too many times to people who have been attending all their life. I call it a "frozen backslide". Funny term huh? It seems as though they are frozen in time...no love or concern for anybody but their own...hair piled on top of their heads (for women only) and dresses at the right length. But when you try to be friendly, they look at you with that sour look as if to say "Why are you talking to me?" Be gone! If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny. I don't want to end up being like that just to stay in a church system.

That being said, I must say that you and your husband must follow what you feel the Holy Spirit is guiding you to do. Examine yourselves fully to see if you are committed enough in your spirits to walk with Christ everyday without the anchor of a man-made organized church system. Be prepared to be in "the wilderness" with Christ for a time. The wilderness walk really is not so bad because for us, it was a time for getting up on our feet and walking like a toddler by ourselves. It is time spent consecrating and reconsecrating our lives to God, just Him and us. A time to regain fellowship with Christ and His principles and good news of the Gospels.

It may be harder for you since you were so active and had much support from the other people. But for us, we walked with God alone while in the UPC organized church system anyway. So it wasn't much difference when we left it.

There are many things you can do to find like-minded fellowship. One man put an ad in the local newspaper seeking people who believed in early-church principles for weekly gatherings for Bible study and worship. Home churches allows for everybody's input in the Bible studies. It's really an awesome thing to be able to exhort and uplift others and they reciprocate to you in a meeting.

You may also have to travel some to other cities or areas from time to time and visit a body of believers for fellowship.

All in all, when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, we must love Christ enough in whatever setting we find ourselves to be living in, to walk with Him regardless of what other people think or do. If you persevere walking with Christ, everyday taking up your cross and following Him, God will reward you beyond your wildest dreams.

I never forget what one old preacher man once said about living for God: "I want to live close enough to the Post Office to get my own mail". That should be food for thought for every born-again Holy Ghost filled believer.

I hear what you are saying AYR and I appreciate it. We have thought for a long time that this might be just where we are headed... But we do crave fellowship and our experiences with bad religion has not squashed that desire completely... yet.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Lake Highlands Church is a great church. Website is in my signature. A former Church of Christ (25 years ago) leans orderly Pentecostal in worship.

Pastor has personally mentored over seven gay men for over twenty years, written a book about it. Several are married with children and still attend LHC, some are committed to a celibate life.

He is in London and Ireland this next two weeks by invitation of several churches that want to hear his teaching on ministry to gays, and how the church should be a safe place, but still teach right living.

The media in London is demonizing him as "the homophobic from Texas", threating to protest the meetings. They are really nuts!! Homosexuality is not separated out as a "special" sin, that is unforgivable, at LHC. His mentoring is his calling at a personal level, not the focus of his public ministry.

Doctrine is mostly evangelical, but no heavy trinity focus, not stated in "what we believe". Teaching is scholarly and spiritual, pastor has about six graduate degrees, but is not heady with human education, down to earth and very Jesus centric. He was an attorney prior to full time pastoring.

Life groups are deep fellowship and community, Jesus is the focus of life at LHC. Pastor has been at LHC for almost thirty years.

Have a sister church anywhere near Houston? Or just one that you think shares those values?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Have a sister church anywhere near Houston? Or just one that you think shares those values?

Yeah, I'd also like to know.... LOL