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  #21  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:20 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

The real origin of the Christmas Tree:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKzNQDxAw8


Yes, even the Christmas Tree is a "Christian tradition".
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  #22  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:23 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson View Post
Brother Meyers was a great Christian.
A lot of Meyer's research is like the "Apostolic History Outline". It's not really verifiable, and some things are embellishments. There is also the twisting of Scripture. For example the Christmas tree. The passage used to condemn the Christmas tree is actually about men who go out, cut down a tree, and carve out an idol. It's not about a decorative tree for the season.
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  #23  
Old 12-20-2011, 06:40 AM
onefaith2 onefaith2 is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Here's a video about the origin of Santa Claus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39QomPEL3jQ


Technically, Santa Claus is a distinctly Christian tradition. Yes, over a period of over a thousand years some indigenous myths were integrated into his legend. But Santa was a real man. Being a Protestant nation, American Christians removed the religious dimension of Santa Claus to "de-Catholicize" him, so they could continue the practice of gift giving. Sadly, by removing the Catholic background from Santa we helped to secularize him. As Christians... we can reclaim the custom of secret giving in the name of Santa Claus by teaching people the truth about him.
Santa Claus is a story built on a real person, it is not a real person. Saint Nicholas' life was dramatically different. When is the last time you heard Santa was christian? The secularization of Santa and the push that he is real now, is a myth and a lie, and therein lies the problem with it. If we teach our children that Santa is a fictional character, embodying the spirit of Christmas, that is one thing. However, to teach that he exists and he is the source of gifts and the merry spirit of the season, is another.

The myth of Santa Claus has in many respects replaced the importance of Jesus. This is sad because the story of Santa is a good one.

Saint Nicholas would therefore probably preach, look back to Jesus on Christmas and help the needy!
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  #24  
Old 12-20-2011, 09:54 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

Xmas is a Catholic holiday period.
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  #25  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:03 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

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Originally Posted by onefaith2 View Post
Santa Claus is a story built on a real person, it is not a real person. Saint Nicholas' life was dramatically different. When is the last time you heard Santa was christian? The secularization of Santa and the push that he is real now, is a myth and a lie, and therein lies the problem with it. If we teach our children that Santa is a fictional character, embodying the spirit of Christmas, that is one thing. However, to teach that he exists and he is the source of gifts and the merry spirit of the season, is another.
Onefaith, the custom isn’t to lie. The custom is to secretly or anonymously give. Those who began the practice of gift giving during this season were disciples of Nicholas. They’d provide for those in dire need and when asked, they’d give the credit to St. Nicholas. The custom just spread.

I was raised in a home where mom talked about “Santa”. I did the traditional photo shoot while sitting on the lap of a “Santa Claus”. I used to get so excited that “Santa was coming”. As I grew older, maybe five or six, I began to figure out that Santa wasn’t real. To me, this was a… game; a rather fun game wherein if I were good throughout the year my mom would reward me. It was almost a right of passage. I felt like I triumphed when I was able to tell my mother that I knew she was buying the presents. Lol I felt like I had “figured out” the game. Mom laughed and denied it at first with a smile and a twinkle in her eyes. I knew she was playing still. I laughed and told her that I knew… and she called me up on her lap and explained that she was impressed that I figured it out. Then she smiled and told me not to tell the secret to other kids; because they had to figure this out on their own too. It was a beautiful game. I was a big boy. These memories make me feel all warm inside now that I think about it. Mom’s been dead for about four years now. I miss her.

In addition, my mom taught me about the birth of Jesus and who Jesus was. As I grew older my mother told me about the real St. Nicholas and why it was that gifts are given to small children in his name. No harm done.

Parent’s play games with their children all the time. Those who would argue that a parent is, “lying to their child”, for participating in the Santa tradition is obviously a boring old coot who has never teased or played with their children. They’ve never hid something of their child’s and playfully pretended that they didn’t know where it was. They never played dead. They never acted like they saw a spider when they didn’t. And the list could go on and on. The point is… if anything… the Santa tradition is perhaps the greatest and most magical game we play with our children during the holiday season. Some people need to stop being so uptight.

Quote:
The myth of Santa Claus has in many respects replaced the importance of Jesus. This is sad because the story of Santa is a good one.
Actually, it’s not necessarily a myth, it’s a legend. Remember, Nicholas was a real pastor who was obviously very generous and greatly loved. Yes, the story has been inflated and embellished to legendary proportions. Not to mention various cultures have added an aspect to his character as the story has developed.

But that’s not the main thrust of your point. You’re stating that the legend of Santa Claus has replaced the importance of Jesus during the holiday season. And, I agree. You’re very right about that. However, I have a question to ask…

Is that the legend’s fault? No. The blame belongs to parents. Parents who do not have family prayer, family Bible study time, family altar. I blame the parents who are “too busy” or “too tired” to sit down next to the hearth and read the story of Christ’s birth and talk to their children about it. My mother not only carried the Santa Clause tradition in our home, but she also taught me about Jesus. As I grew older the religious aspects of Christmas became more and more understood.

You can banish the holiday traditions as far as you like from a society…but if parents aren’t willing to educate their kids regarding Jesus and His birth… it will have all been in vain. Or, you can participate in our cultural traditions AND teach kids about Jesus… and it is well for your home.

Quote:
Saint Nicholas would therefore probably preach, look back to Jesus on Christmas and help the needy!
No doubt that is what Nicholas would do. I agree.

But here we are in 2011, moving full speed into 2012. The cultural symbol of Santa Claus has largely been secularized. Why? Two reasons: Religion and markets. First, Protestants wanted to continue their gift giving and holiday feast observances but avoid participating in something Catholic. So as not to be seen as partaking in a Catholic tradition, they began to strip St. Nicholas of all his religious connotations. Next, the businesses began using the image of Santa as part of their seasonal push for the holidays. Since Santa was “secularized” free markets could use him without offending anyone. So now we have a very secular Santa in our culture.

What are we to do???

Well… first… those who curse the custom still give gifts and feast with family. So rather they like it or not, they are observing the custom, just secretly…like the Protestants before them. Lol

Second, we could curse the darkness, denounce Santa, all decorations, all holiday customs, and be stark, plain, and non-Christmas kind of people.

Third, we can light the darkness with education. Jesus said, “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.” I believe that the Christian community does itself a disservice and actually weakens its influence by running from this sort of thing by denouncing them and ignoring them. We need to take back what the enemy has stolen. We need to educate our children about the real Santa (St. Nicholas) and our cultural heritage as they grow older. Ground them in reality.

We don’t have to erase all of our Western customs and cultural identity to please a narrow body of fundamentalists who aren’t going to be happy with what we do no matter what.

Here’s an interesting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm5Az...eature=related


Please share your thoughts? Curse the darkness… or light your world?

Last edited by Aquila; 12-20-2011 at 10:13 AM.
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  #26  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:05 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
Xmas is a Catholic holiday period.
If one takes "Communion" with a wafer and a sip of wine (or grape juice)... they've had a Catholic Eucharist... not "The Lord's Supper". Period.

Many among us have NEVER truly or biblically observed the "Lord's Supper"...though they throw down a wafer and a sip of grape juice every New Years Eve.

But Eucharist vs. The Lord's Supper is another debate entirely. Most have no idea how serious the difference is.

Last edited by Aquila; 12-20-2011 at 10:16 AM.
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  #27  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:06 AM
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Cindy Cindy is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

Not to me.
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:16 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

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Originally Posted by Cindy View Post
Not to me.
You don't celebrate Christmas Cindy?

I hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions. During this holiday season:
Do you give gifts?
Do you have a feast with family?
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  #29  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:20 AM
Dagwood Dagwood is offline
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Re: Is Christmas “pagan”?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy View Post
Not to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
You don't celebrate Christmas Cindy?

I hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions. During this holiday season:
Do you give gifts?
Do you have a feast with family?
I could be wrong, but I think she was replying directly to your original question, "Is Christmas 'pagan'?" by answering "not to me."
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  #30  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:34 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagwood

I could be wrong, but I think she was replying directly to your original question, "Is Christmas 'pagan'?" by answering "not to me."
Ah, I see. Thanks.
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