I think, scripturally, that faith is only faith if there is obedience following. Otherwise, it's dead, right?
We are all given a measure of faith, and I do believe that "seed" (if you will) is in us until a day when we have to choose to activate it. It is activiated by obedience. But, if obedience does not result, at some point in our life that seed of faith dies, as James says.
So, I've come to believe that God does not consider faith "faith" until there is some sort of action evidenced. What He considers it to be before that action, I have yet to learn.
Faith has to exist in some form prior to obedience being added into the mix. As has already been mentioned, the Bible say every man has been given "the" measure of faith. If what you are saying were true then it would mean every man has obeyed as well or what they've been given isn't faith at all. It seems that faith is perfected through obedience, but can still exist prior to obedience entering the picture. I don't have my Bible program on this computer but I am thinking of that setting of scripture that talks about Abraham obeying by faith, which means his faith produced the obedience.
Faith has to exist in some form prior to obedience being added into the mix. As has already been mentioned, the Bible say every man has been given "the" measure of faith. If what you are saying were true then it would mean every man has obeyed as well or what they've been given isn't faith at all. It seems that faith is perfected through obedience, but can still exist prior to obedience entering the picture. I don't have my Bible program on this computer but I am thinking of that setting of scripture that talks about Abraham obeying by faith, which means his faith produced the obedience.
I hear ya and agree, for the most part.
I've come to view faith as not something I decide is or is not, but something that God decides is or is not. Make any sense?
If that doesn't make sense, let me ask it this way:
Abraham was counted righteous why? Because he had faith or because he obeyed?
__________________
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]
Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
I've come to view faith as not something I decide is or is not, but something that God decides is or is not. Make any sense?
If that doesn't make sense, let me ask it this way:
Abraham was counted righteous why? Because he had faith or because he obeyed?
I hear what you are saying too, but when you break it down to its simplest form his faith is what produced his obedience, not the other way around. Faith is an element of obedience, but obedience is a product of faith. I think we agree that they work together though.
Not to keep harping on it, but I don't think they can exist without each other. Not in God's eyes anyway.
I do, cause the Bible says everyone has one of them but not everyone has both. But, it's all in how you go about splitting the hair, if you catch my drift. We both agree they are both necessary to please God.
OGIA, I think this is the first time you and I have ever talked about anything. I enjoyed it. Sure beats all the going back and forth we get caught up in around here.
OGIA, I think this is the first time you and I have ever talked about anything. I enjoyed it. Sure beats all the going back and forth we get caught up in around here.
The problem is I wasn't finished!!
Nah, I decided to quit while I (we) wuz ahead. I enjoyed it, too.
It's amazing how much I can learn when I've got a good spirit about folks! It ain't always gotta be about right and wrong or lib and con. It is most of the time, but not all the time.
__________________
And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. [Zechariah 14:9]
Ignorance of the Identity of the One True God is not a valid reason to practice idolatry.
Linear Mode
