Effective methods for changing a church within?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I see nothing wrong with talking to the pastor, asking questions...we all have a right to know why things are preached and taught at the local assembly. I think there is a right way to do things however....

I agree, but I DO think there is something wrong with publicly flouting rules and encouraging others to do the same. That's unethical, IMO. Without addressing the religious side of the coin, it's a lot classier to direct your disagreements directly to the pastor and not go behind his back.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Jay

Anything that subverts the pastor directly or indirectly is rebellion and sin. This is true no matter what he preaches. The best way to handle it is to either talk directly to the pastor or leave.

Grape or Strawberry ?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

Bro Jay is not UPC

WWPF rebel

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I agree, but I DO think there is something wrong with publicly flouting rules and encouraging others to do the same. That's unethical, IMO. Without addressing the religious side of the coin, it's a lot classier to direct your disagreements directly to the pastor and not go behind his back.

Amen

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I think this is a relevant question in the arena of thought that this thread has presented.

Does anyone know of a situation where someone felt that the church needed changing from the inside... and it ever happened?

I've never know of this to ever actually take place. I'd like to hear if anyone knows of an instance where it did.

There are churches all over the world that have experinced doctrinal change and today are radically different than before.

There are churches that for years sang the top 20 list out of "Pentecostal Praises" that today have exciting worship services that are filled with songs written by a plethora of new Christian song writers.

There are churches that use to only minister inwardly that today are reaching out into their communities in ways that a decade or two ago would be thought "going charismatic"

All of these changes were brought about by people within local assemblies that dared to ..dare i say, "Think out side the box.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I agree, but I DO think there is something wrong with publicly flouting rules and encouraging others to do the same. That's unethical, IMO. Without addressing the religious side of the coin, it's a lot classier to direct your disagreements directly to the pastor and not go behind his back.

Don't many peaceful protests begin by openly flouting rules and encouraging others to do the same? What makes a peaceful protest in a nation any different than a peaceful protest in the church?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I think this is a relevant question in the arena of thought that this thread has presented.

Does anyone know of a situation where someone felt that the church needed changing from the inside... and it ever happened?

I've never know of this to ever actually take place. I'd like to hear if anyone knows of an instance where it did.

I don't know of any where it has and I think that's because its easier for people to just leave than risk being labeled an outcast and troublemaker for trying to bring about that change from the inside.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

There are churches all over the world that have experinced doctrinal change and today are radically different than before.

There are churches that for years sang the top 20 list out of "Pentecostal Praises" that today have exciting worship services that are filled with songs written by a plethora of new Christian song writers.

There are churches that use to only minister inwardly that today are reaching out into their communities in ways that a decade or two ago would be thought "going charismatic"

All of these changes were brought about by people within local assemblies that dared to ..dare i say, "Think out side the box.

Those sound more like what tend to be "from the top down" changes.

Do you know of any that were changes made by local church members pressing for a change?

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Those sound more like what tend to be "from the top down" changes.

Do you know of any that were changes made by local church members pressing for a change?

From the top down changes can come by the Pastor observing the results of his ministry on the church and not liking what he sees. When you see that you are losing your young people because of harsh extra biblical rules and authoritarian control some might decide to change their methods. When the Sunday school teachers and Youth Leaders are wringing their hangs and saying "there are things that we teach that the young people are questioning, and 'because Pastor said' just isnt working for this generation, maybe it worked for us, but it's not going to work for them." Change can be an ebb and flow between the Pastor and the congregation because of love and examining the results of one's ministry. The church is an organism, not a one person show.

Adults can be open and honest and express their concerns in a respectfull manner. Young people on the other hand are most likely going to act out what they are feeling.

Not all of the traditions of men are bad, some are good and are grounded in biblical principles. Sometimes it's how those principle are presented. You can teach principles and allow God to work on a person's heart, loving them while God is doing the work. Or you can damage a person by demanding that they line up to the tee or they will split hell wide open.

Demanding conformity with an overbearing authoritation spirit will cause people to become judgemental hypocrits that are constantly eyeing each other up to see who lines up and who is on their way to hell.

We, the people of the Name, who love and worship God with beautifull and expressive praise, who see many come to the Lord with Holy Ghost infillings and baptisms in Jesus Name, have something so very precious. Let us not mar it by crossing the line from encouraging our spiritual children to become holy from the inside out to mandating life choking legalism that kills the love of the Spirit.

We who have begun in the Spirit, shall we then become perfect through the flesh?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I don't know of any where it has and I think that's because its easier for people to just leave than risk being labeled an outcast and troublemaker for trying to bring about that change from the inside.

I think you are right.

Also, there is a common misconception that a pastor's authority is not limited to teaching God's word, but is somehow extended to his whim of choosing while the balance of the body is somehow of lessor value.