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  #21  
Old 07-18-2011, 05:48 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: are we constantly struggling?

Complete victory is not only possible, but it is promised in the Bible.

"All things new" does not leave any room for doubt.
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  #22  
Old 07-18-2011, 05:50 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: are we constantly struggling?

Let me be clearer, if necessary.

There is nothing in the life of a sinner that GOD cannot deliver that sinner from.

We seek GOD and we will reap the benefits of a close relationship with our Father.
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  #23  
Old 07-18-2011, 08:38 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: are we constantly struggling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Oh, I understood ya bro. I was just making an illustration so as to be sure no one misunderstood the implications of your statement. You're all good.
Cool, thanks
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #24  
Old 07-19-2011, 01:35 AM
houston houston is offline
Isaiah 56:4-5


 
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Thanks for the replies. I had nothing personal in mind. I was thinking of a statement that a friend made 3 yrs ago. He said that he is constantly fighting against lust. I just think sometimes, why do some people get full victory while others constantly battle with the sins that they were delivered from?? I am not sure I accept that God would leave His children in a limbo. I think that His children tend to live below their means, suffering from a spiritual inferiority complex. Just my scattered thoughts.
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  #25  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:27 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: are we constantly struggling?

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Originally Posted by kingdomapostle View Post
God ALWAYS gives us the victory and causes us to triumph. You may have to struggle but there is VICTORY!
Where is the victory found?

This is an important question because some people believe it is by trying harder, more self discipline, or some magical empowerment accompanied by goosebumps that causes them to live victoriously.

I know where the victory is found. It's found in Christ Jesus. Through "faith" we have the victory by reckoning and applying those truths associated with our salvation and identity in Christ.

I have a fallen nature that often causes me to stumble and sin. I have carnal thinking that I might relapse into and therefore stumble and sin. But here's the good news... I'm not the one sinning. Why? Because my human spirit is regenerated via it's union with the Holy Spirit. I, the real me, desires absolute holiness that isn't possible through this flesh that I currently have. So I often stumble and fall in my flesh... but not in my spirit. It is no longer I who sins... but sin that is within me (the sinful principle behind the fallen nature). After the flesh I find myself obeying the law of sin... but in my spirit the law of Christ. This brings a sense of condemnation to me and I begin to hate my flesh, I begin to hate my human identity. How shall I overcome this condemnation?... through the Spirit. If I walk in the Spirit (associating my identity in Christ via the Spirit and appropriating it's reality to myself) I descover I have no condemnation. I can look at the thing I did, hate it, confess it, and walk away feeling absolutely NO condemnation.

So my flesh still sins... but my spirit doesnt. In one sense struggle with sin... in another I am one with Christ and partake in His sinless divine nature. My struggle isn't necessarily with my behaviors. My struggle is with my faith in who I am in Christ according to Scripture. When I fall my carnal mind wants to take that identity upon itself and thereby I begin to identify myself with what I did instead of who I am in Christ Jesus. So the struggle is to keep "faith" (the act of reckoning something unseen as being so) in who God says I am.... I am the very "righteousness of God"... pure... sinless... holy... in Christ Jesus. That is the struggle. Not "behavior modification"... but "identity realization".

When I hear people talk about "struggling" with sin... I typically look at them and say, "Your problem is that you don't even know who you are in Christ." You are walking in this condemnation and allowing Satan to convince you to identity yourself with that sinful nature that you still have. But if you have the Holy Ghost, THAT is your inner identity. That is the REAL you. The fact that you feel a sense of condemnation and feel as though you have to struggle is evidence of this inner divine nature imparted by the very presence of the Spirit. If you weren't a partaker in His divine nature... your sin wouldn't bother you. It only bothers you because your behaviors aren't in alignment with your new and real identity in Christ.

It's funny really. Behavior modification doesn't work. Disciplines don't work long term either (as anyone who has been on a diet). But identity does work. I'll explain.... if you tell a person they are a no good, low down, brainless nothing for years... and they believe you. What will happen? That is what they become. We see this in abused children all the time. Some of us bare the scars and wounds of hurtful and/or abusive words from a frustrated parent or angry spouse. Satan uses this tactic too. Satan tells you that you're a vile, sinful, abominable, creature fallen from God's finger tips and that God doesn't love you and will only love you if you achieve perfection in your behaviors. The more you fail... the more Satan starts telling you that you are just unable to do it. You might as well give up. You are not a real Christian. You're a fake. A phony. A failure. If we believe these lies... we will act them out being what we think we are and perhaps give up on being a Christian. Or... we will begin performing religiously when around our church friends... but in private, when no one is looking, we act out through that defeated identity we've accepted. A hypocrite is then born.

We've also seen children or people who are bathed in encouragement, love, and acceptance and watched them flurish into beautiful and successful human beings. This is part of the reason why God gave us His Word. In God's Word He tells us who we are "in Christ". God is like the loving parent who has taken us, those who have been abused by Satan's lies, and is encouraging, affirming, and showing unconditional love. When we feel defeated...God is saying, "You're already victorious in Christ." When we feel like we are sinners bound for Hell because of something we did or just don't seem to be able to break free from... God is saying, "You are the righteousness of God in Christ." When we feel like giving up and accepting the lies of Satan and just declaring him the winner... God says, "You are more than conquerors in Christ." When we get into the rut of measuring who we are by our behavior as compared to some religious law and discover we simply can't do it.... God is saying, "After the inward man you are righteous, pure, and Holy." When Satan tells us we are not Holy... God tells us, "You are justified through faith in Christ and my holiness is a gift that has covered your inabilities. In my sight, you're sinless."

What a loving Father! Whose report are we to believe? If we believe Satan's we will struggle until there is little joy in our Christian lives and we become legalistic religionists. If we believe Satan's lies we will struggle until we just... give up. But if we believe what God Himself says about our idenity and reckon it so, appropriating it by faith, though we do not see how it can be a reality, we can take a deep breath... we're secure by who we are in Christ... not by who we are in ourselves.

What do you believe about yourself?

Do you believe what you see in your behaviors and failures and allow that to dictate your identity?

Do you believe Satan's lies concerning your behaviors and failures and allow those lies to dictate your identity?

Or do you believe what God's Word says about you IN SPITE of your behaviors and failures and allow God's Word to dictate your identity?

As a man thinketh... so is he. Do you believe you are a fallen creature in a constant struggle with sin? Or do you believe you are a sinless, holy, new creature that is partaking in Christ's nature who simply still exists in a fallen vessel we call "flesh"?

Who are you? This is the REAL struggle...believing who God says you are. Once you believe that you are what God says you are... watch as your behaviors start aligning with your identity.
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  #26  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:31 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: are we constantly struggling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Let me be clearer, if necessary.

There is nothing in the life of a sinner that GOD cannot deliver that sinner from.

We seek GOD and we will reap the benefits of a close relationship with our Father.
I'd say it a little differently, but I agree. I'd say,

There is nothing in the life of a sinner that GOD HAS NOT ALREADY DELIVERED that sinner from.
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  #27  
Old 07-19-2011, 10:37 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: are we constantly struggling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by houston View Post
Thanks for the replies. I had nothing personal in mind. I was thinking of a statement that a friend made 3 yrs ago. He said that he is constantly fighting against lust. I just think sometimes, why do some people get full victory while others constantly battle with the sins that they were delivered from?? I am not sure I accept that God would leave His children in a limbo. I think that His children tend to live below their means, suffering from a spiritual inferiority complex. Just my scattered thoughts.
If he is greatly troubled spiritually about this... he isn't lusting. He is experiencing his "flesh" lusting and is allowing it to take him where he doesn't want to go. It's like an auto-pilot that is constantly on (sin nature). His spirit is obviously not in agreement with his flesh, so after the inward man he is obedient to the law of Christ against lust. Therefore He should reckon his identity as being that of the inward man (walk after the Spirit). Now this will shake the condemnation. He must begin to reckon his identity as being so solidly in Christ... he looses himself in Jesus and stand in faith in that until only Christ remains. He IS one with Christ. You see Christ is in the Father, the Father is in Christ... and Christ is in us. He has to tap into the reality of that "oneness" with Christ. Then by just being himself, the the inner man who is alive in Christ, he can begin curbing those behaviors and desires. But he need not walk around feeling defeated. He's already victorious over lust through Christ Jesus.

Last edited by Aquila; 07-19-2011 at 10:55 AM.
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