Temple Institute Blueprints

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Austin

Funny how people can twist the scriptures and make them conformable to their personal indoctrinations. This teaching of the coming of Christ and the end time including the Temple teaching on the destruction of it in 66-70 AD is one of the biggest misconceptions of truth I think I have ever heard. Now, That's just my opinion not argument. it would be endless for me to try and respond to these issues, simply due to the fact, first I'm out gunned on this forum, and secondary I guess in my opinion which is what a forum is about, If some of you chose to follow this particular teaching what is it to me!

Whoa, hoss! lol

Do you think I never had doubts about this when I first came across it?

Brother, the bible teaches the wisdom of checking with scriptures anything that we have not heard before, as the Bereans who searched scriptures daily to see whether Paul's words were true or not. To be closed minded to something is a fleshly response that ANYONE experiences at first when they hear something they were not taught before. We have all done it. Imagine a trinitarian hearing Oneness for the first time.

God may be trying to show you truth! It is only because it is so contrasting from what you were taught that it seems wrong. But do not succumb to the common urge to cast it away since it is different. Had the Bereans done that with Paul's words they would never have known truth. I do not ask you to accept my views, but to GIVE THEM A CHANCE.

At least CONSIDER it may be true. On what basis would we not? Really stop and think about it. On WHAT BASIS would you cast it away? What if you interpreted something different than what God intended you to interpret it as? What if what you heard was wrong and you simply adhere to it because you first heard that view you hold and reject anything on the simple basis that it is not what you heard before? How would you know you were wrong?

Proverbs says to HEAR A MATTER OUT FULLY before you give an answer to it, lest you act foolishly.

Proverbs 18:13 KJV He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

This does not mean to accept everything that comes our way. But it means to not cast it away on the simple basis that it is different from your beliefs.

This view STILL HAS JESUS COMING IN THE FUTURE with a rapture and all. But it also shows that the punishment on Israel from the cross was real.

Surely you will at least check it out and honestly give it a chance, which you have not done yet. Otherwise, Solomons said we act foolishly. If God is trying to show you something, then you are not letting him!

Matt 21:40 was talking about AD70 destruction and CALLED IS THE COMING OF THE LORD! Check it out!


Matthew 21:40 KJV When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?


Matthew 21:45 KJV And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

[Sandy]

That is so true what you said there about how we do react often. Honestly to anything almost when it comes to being wrong. Nobody likes to be that is for sure. But we all can be. Been there many times before. Even ran once from the truth for a while.

I don't know for sure if what your saying is correct. But I like that statement about the sign not being church example anyway.

Sometimes it sounds right, but then when you look at what is happening today, it also sounds like others are may be right about what the do believe. Except I cannot forget about Cory Ten boom saying when Hitler took over, everyone thought they were going to be gone soon in some rapture, thinking Hitler was the antichrist. But of course, didn't happen. And today many are saying the same thing today. Or at least seeing it was the end. But we were saying the same thing many years ago too, once I did begin to truly follow Jesus Christ finally, after God finally revealed who He actually was to me.

[Austin]

The problem I have with this AD 70 thing is this. It does away with the 1000 year millennium and it also does away with the Antichrist. Or at least that's what it looks like. I know for certain that we are not in the millenium because there is no peace in the earth. Neither is there a new city where God dwells above.
I don't believe that the Jews will have any offering for sin if they built a thousand temples because they missed it. But I do believe they will build another temple whether it is righteous or not is not the issue because I think it won't. if they are not going to build a temple then why have they been training over 400 priest since 1985. and why have they been looking for the artifacts of the temple and have located most of them. And why are they telling the world that they want to rebuild their temple. And where is the tribulation period if the temple being destroyed in 70 AD was an end time prophecy. I always believe that Jesus was referring to a temple in the end of the age of this current world system that would be thrown at his coming. Where is the battle of armageddon or better yet when was it.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Austin

The problem I have with this AD 70 thing is this. It does away with the 1000 year millennium and it also does away with the Antichrist. Or at least that's what it looks like. I know for certain that we are not in the millenium because there is no peace in the earth. Neither is there a new city where God dwells above.
I don't believe that the Jews will have any offering for sin if they built a thousand temples because they missed it. But I do believe they will build another temple whether it is righteous or not is not the issue because I think it won't. if they are not going to build a temple then why have they been training over 400 priest since 1985. and why have they been looking for the artifacts of the temple and have located most of them. And why are they telling the world that they want to rebuild their temple. And where is the tribulation period if the temple being destroyed in 70 AD was an end time prophecy. I always believe that Jesus was referring to a temple in the end of the age of this current world system that would be thrown at his coming. Where is the battle of armageddon or better yet when was it.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...tle+Armageddon

Falla39

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Falla39

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http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...tle+Armageddon

Falla39

http://community-2.webtv.net/dean361...nes/page2.html

[Godsdrummer]

I can only say one thing, too many of us learned how to read but never learned how to understand what we have read. So we take the explanation of others whether right or wrong and fight for it. I have heard preached that there is comming and anti Christ all my life yet there is not one scripture that speaks of and anti Christ comming. Talk about twisting scripture to say what you want it to. I have heard that the Jews will build another temple when there is not one scripture that say that.

All of these teachings are from scriptures taken out of context to teach a doctrine that is based on mans ideas and not sound word of God.

Why tell me do we read the bible different from any other book, bible teacher today do not study a book of the bible from front to back, instead they get out a concordance and look up subjects and make scripture fit the subject they want to teach, taking the meaning out of the context completly.

One big one is the teaching that one must obey the pastor, from Hebrews 13:17. Nowhere in the chapter does the writter imply the kind of obediance preached by most concervitive pastors. Yet men have twisted this one verse to say something that is not even emplyied. Anyone with a greek dictionary can find this in about three miniutes. Just look up the meaning of the word obey in this verse. (hint, it is not the same word as Obey in Ephesians)

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

I can only say one thing, too many of us learned how to read but never learned how to understand what we have read. So we take the explanation of others whether right or wrong and fight for it. I have heard preached that there is comming and anti Christ all my life yet there is not one scripture that speaks of and anti Christ comming. Talk about twisting scripture to say what you want it to. I have heard that the Jews will build another temple when there is not one scripture that say that.

All of these teachings are from scriptures taken out of context to teach a doctrine that is based on mans ideas and not sound word of God.

Why tell me do we read the bible different from any other book, bible teacher today do not study a book of the bible from front to back, instead they get out a concordance and look up subjects and make scripture fit the subject they want to teach, taking the meaning out of the context completly.

One big one is the teaching that one must obey the pastor, from Hebrews 13:17. Nowhere in the chapter does the writter imply the kind of obediance preached by most concervitive pastors. Yet men have twisted this one verse to say something that is not even emplyied. Anyone with a greek dictionary can find this in about three miniutes. Just look up the meaning of the word obey in this verse. (hint, it is not the same word as Obey in Ephesians)

Scripture definitely speaks about a coming anti-christ. Now whether you believe it's past already or still to come is another issue entirely. But here it is:

2 Thess 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

1 John 4:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

[Godsdrummer]

Now I Paul comfort you, and encourage you to know that just as Christ said, he would come in judgment on those that do not repent for putting him in the cross.

Know and understand the day of Christ is at hand, this is addressed to those living then that the day of Christ was at hand. What was the day of Christ? His comming judgement he spoke of in Matt 23 & 24.

First let us deal with this falling away so many teach to be an a endtime apostasy, not so. This word means to leave depart, (be encouraged, and not decieved that the comming judgment in comming soon but understand Christ will not bring this judgment until the departure first. What was this departure? The Christians leaveing Jerusalem!!

This does not prove an anti christ for one Paul is speaking of one that will come before 70ad and the destruction of Jerusalem.

As for the one passage in the bible that uses the word anti christ, John says that right then is the last time!! and that anti christ shall come (plural) and that even now there are anti christ (plural) Sorry neither of these speak of an anti christ as protraid by dispenstationalism.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Austin

The problem I have with this AD 70 thing is this. It does away with the 1000 year millennium and it also does away with the Antichrist. Or at least that's what it looks like. I know for certain that we are not in the millenium because there is no peace in the earth. Neither is there a new city where God dwells above.

The question is whether or not your understanding of the millennium and antichrist are the proper understanding the bible intended us to know. That is what I asked of myself when I personally studied the issue.

I cannot say if you are of this following type, but I know many ministers and saints who did not personally study the view of prophecy they currently adhere to in order to determine if it really was the truth or not. IOW, who actually took these views we were taught and personally studied the scripture to ensure they were taught correctly?

A minister whom I personally know very well once engaged in dialogue with me about my studies on prophecy when I first started experiencing what I believe was God's correction for my views. I asked this person what they thought about certain details of biblical prophecy, and they consistently indicated that I should speak to Irvin Baxter, and personally refused to actually consider what I was saying himself. I realized many ministers have the idea that prophecy is an issue that ONLY EXPERTS can deal with and comprehend. Anyone else, even a minister, who is not an "expert" should not bother to determine what various views are right or wrong. I realized this minister would not personally weigh out the differences and look for himself into the scriptures that dealt with the particular issues I raised. When I asked WHAT HE THOUGHT, he refused to think about it. He forwarded me to Bro Baxter.

I believe every minister and even every saint of God needs to realize that each of us are MEANT TO GET OUR VIEW FROM THE BIBLE AS MUCH AS THE NEXT "EXPERT" CAN. There are no parts of the Bible that are not meant to be understood by EVERYONE. There are no sections of the Bible that we should consider off-limits except for "experts".

The manner I approached the bible with was to read it as though everyone who ever taught me anything MIGHT BE WRONG. And I would look with my own eyes at the scriptures they interpreted and honestly ask myself if that was what people's interpretations actually were saying. I read it from the perspective that everything I was taught may not necessarily be correct, and as though I had never heard any interpretation before. I read it as though I was allowing the BIBLE to relate to me what it was trying to say, trusting in faith for God to direct me.

Of course, some things I was taught I found to be correct. I found it to be the honest and sincere conclusions I personally would come up with on my own sincere study. And then at times I found that scripture that initially seemed to contradict what I was taught actually did not contradict what I was taught! I thought I found a belief taught to me that was wrong! But then after more careful study, I personally felt I was taught correctly in that issue after all.

What I am trying to say is that WE CANNOT LOOK IN THE BIBLE FOR WHAT WE WERE ALREADY TAUGHT, without allowing the BIBLE TO CORRECT US. My motto below says that most people read the bible to find what they already believe rather than allow the bible to tell them what to believe.

We have to have a love for truth to such an extent that WE ARE WILLING TO CHANGE BELIEFS if it is necessary. MOST WILL NOT DO THAT.

So I said all that to say this: What if your understanding of the antichrist is wrong to begin with? And what if the millennial understanding is also wrong to begin with? Who among us is able to go back and ask themselves WHY they believe what they believe about these two things? Who can determine if what they were taught is actually correct or not? Most do not even THINK to question what they believe, since many believe their teachers cannot be wrong. What if they WERE wrong, though?

I don't believe that the Jews will have any offering for sin if they built a thousand temples because they missed it. But I do believe they will build another temple whether it is righteous or not is not the issue because I think it won't. if they are not going to build a temple then why have they been training over 400 priest since 1985. and why have they been looking for the artifacts of the temple and have located most of them. And why are they telling the world that they want to rebuild their temple.

Who said God foretold a rebuilt temple just because Jews are seeking to do so? I already indicated that Israel tried rebuilding a temple in the early centuries following the times of the New Testament and earthquakes and fireballs stopped it from occurring. Could it be that God will not allow another temple to be built again? And even if it IS rebuilt, who said it was prophesied in the Bible?

And where is the tribulation period if the temple being destroyed in 70 AD was an end time prophecy.

A common mistake is that the bible was talking about the end of time, when in actuality it was called the TIME OF THE END. And "END OF WHAT?" is the question. End of time? Or time of end? if it is the TIME OF THE END, then it is not necessarily the end of time.

I believe the tribulation was the 3.5 years that Nero waged war against the church in the first century. And the end was speaking about the END of the jewish economy and the Old Testament continuance of rituals when Jesus meant it to end at the cross,and Israel continued to engage in it for 40 more years. Nero fought the church for 3.5 years until he finally committed suicide with a sword, just as Rev 13 says the who lives by the sword will die by the sword when talking about the beast.

An d Daniel 7 said there would be FOUR BEASTS -- world kingdoms -- and NOT A FIFTH ONE. They are (1) Babylon, (2) Medo-Persia, (3) Greece and (4) Rome. There was not a fifth beast! There was no beast to come after ROME. And this is not speaking of Catholic Rome but Imperial Rome. In the days of the FOURTH BEAST, the imperial Roman empire, the saints would take the dominion from the beast, and Nero was PRAYED DOWN by the church!

continued...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Austin

I always believe that Jesus was referring to a temple in the end of the age of this current world system that would be thrown at his coming. Where is the battle of armageddon or better yet when was it.

Been there and done that.

Almost every futurist minister and scholar I know of proposed that part of Matthew 24 was indeed fulfilled in AD70. And they consistently said that the stones of the temple being thrown down was AD70 information. But they claimed the rest was not. A scarce FEW even propose the stones overturned was not AD70. Pretribbers, post tribbers and mid tribbers alike all agree the stones overturned referred to AD70.

Anyway, it does not matter what we "always believed". What we always believed is not right just because we always believed it.

And I used to believe what you do about Armageddon as well. After all, it's the THING to believe today! But I noticed something. The New Testament often used GLOBAL terms such as WORLD and EARTH to actually speak about LOCAL REGIONS ALONE.

Watch this:

Matthew 24:14 KJV And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Most think this refers to the WHOLE WORLD as we know it. However, Paul writes and uses the same words and informs us that THE WHOLE WORLD ALREADY HEARD THE GOSPEL by the time he wrote Colossians.

Colossians 1:5-6 KJV For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; (6) Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

Colossians 1:23 KJV If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

We clearly see Paul using ALL THE WORLD and EVERY CREATURE as referring to THE THEN-KNOWN WORLD, and not literally the entire earth. Was Paul wrong? Of course not! That terminology was simply what they used to refer to what they knew as the world. Did God know there was more WORLD than they knew about? Sure He did! But HE STILL INSPIRED PAUL TO WRITE WHAT PAUL WROTE and meant it to refer to the then-known world alone.

Revelation seems to say the whole world is drawn into a battle called Armageddon. But the WHOLE WORLD may have been meant to be the then-known world of the ROMAN EMPIRE made up of all nations in the then-known world. Hence, Rome was a WORLD EMPIRE.

So... could this be what was meant to be understood in Revelation about the battle of Armageddon?

Armageddon literally means MOUNTAIN OF MEGIDDO. There is no actually place or mountain called MOUNTAIN OF MEGIDDO anywhere on earth. MEGIDDO is a valley. And nothing around it is called MOUNTAIN OF MEGIDDO. Yet, Rev 16:16 says there is a place called ARMAGEDDON. So this cannot be literal when say there is a place called mountain of Megiddo.

Anyway, even if there was, the point is that this is a battle between GOOD AND EVIL. We all agree with that. And Rome came down and destroyed Jerusalem. The wars of Rome against Jerusalem, just as Jesus predicted, occurred in the first century. Think of it. THE SAME GENERATION (40 years) of the people of Jerusalem WHO denied and KILLED JESUS. No one sees any significance in that?

Think of Jerusalem. God brought Israel out of Egypt after 430 years of bondage. He took them to Canaan as their promised land, and told them He would choose out a city in Canaan where he might put His name, and it was Jerusalem, formerly called Jebusi. He speaks of Jerusalem as HIS BRIDE in Ezekiel 16, and repeatedly says how she turned into a whore and committed adultery against Him. HIS BRIDE crucifies Him while calling a pagan emperor who thought hew as a god as HER KING!

Jesus distinctly said THOSE IN JUDAEA, not the entire world, had better flee to the mountains when they see Jerusalem surrounded with armies because THOSE IN JUDAEA would face tribulation such as never was nor ever would be again. Why would he tell those in Judaea alone to flee if this was tribulation for the whole planet?

And then, forty years later, ONE GENERATION = 40 YEARS, Rome comes down and razes Jerusalem to the ground and distinctly dismantled every stone because GOLD MELTED and seeped between the stones. And Rome wanted ALL the gold! THIS IS HISTORICAL FACT.

And yet some think that has NO SIGNIFICANCE in prophecy? The BRIDE OF GOD is called a whore over and over again in Ezek 16 and crucifies Jesus, the ones whom Jesus called HIS OWN and received Him not. THAT CITY that was the HQ of God all through the Old Testament and into the New, crucifies the Lord, and calls for a pagan king as her own, and is destroyed in that SAME GENERATION 40 years later, and that has no significance to God?

MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY!