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  #21  
Old 03-28-2011, 02:11 PM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
People ARE what God sees them to be. God wasn't up in Heaven while one was "hot for a while" hoping they'd "hang in there". God knew the day they first set foot in a church they were not His and would cool and fall away. God saw them as they ARE. God wasn't guessing, hoping against hope, that they'd stay hot and be saved. Jesus already knew Judas was a devil when He called him to be a disciple. In God's mind... Judas was... Judas. All who fall away are to God what they ARE. If a person falls away they may have tasted the salvation provided in Christ... but from before creation God already knew they were not His own.
You still don't get it. God does justice toward the hear of the person WHETHER OR NOT HE FALLS AWAY LATER! They taste the gift and experience LIFE just as any other believer. You confuse way to many aspects.

AQUILA do you believe in OSAS NOW?
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  #22  
Old 03-28-2011, 02:39 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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Originally Posted by LUKE2447 View Post
You still don't get it. God does justice toward the hear of the person WHETHER OR NOT HE FALLS AWAY LATER! They taste the gift and experience LIFE just as any other believer. You confuse way to many aspects.

AQUILA do you believe in OSAS NOW?
I believe that God knows His own.
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  #23  
Old 03-28-2011, 03:27 PM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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I believe that God knows His own.
You did not answer the question.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2011, 03:32 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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You did not answer the question.
Those who are His, He has secured.
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2011, 04:43 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS does not mean OSAS. I believe in the finished work of the cross in that we can add nothing to the work Jesus did in order to provide us with all we need to overcome. That does not mean we cannot lose salvation nor does it mean we have no part to play. It simply means Christ has nothing else to do to provide us with all we need to be saved and live victoriously.
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  #26  
Old 03-28-2011, 08:19 PM
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OneAccord OneAccord is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

I heard a sermon once entitled "Lies in the Bible". I was shocked and started not to listen to it. Turned out to be a really good message. One that I can remember:

" ...we know that God heareh not sinners....". Jhn 9:31 A lie. God hears the sinners prayer of repentance.
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Waiting for the Lord is easy... Waiting patiently? Not so much.
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  #27  
Old 03-28-2011, 08:22 PM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
I haven't had a chance to look at the link yet but, wow, 52 lies every Sunday would be about a lie a minute for most preacher's sermons.
Ha! You wish. It works out to about one every three minutes where I come from.

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  #28  
Old 03-29-2011, 07:38 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS does not mean OSAS. I believe in the finished work of the cross in that we can add nothing to the work Jesus did in order to provide us with all we need to overcome. That does not mean we cannot lose salvation nor does it mean we have no part to play. It simply means Christ has nothing else to do to provide us with all we need to be saved and live victoriously.
Excellent point.

I'd like to ask a few questions. How do you know if you've lost your salvation? Can one be saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost, saved, lost... repeatedly throughout their lives?

The doctrine of eternal security teaches that SIN is so detestible to God that a perfect sacrifice was necessary. Jesus Christ is the propitiation for our sins, that means that Jesus endured ALL the wrath of God for the sins of the believer. Christ's blood atonement and the salvation provided is so pure and holy, it justifies the most vile of sinners in God's sight. Jesus essentially said, "I'll take ALL of the wrath they'd deserve for their sin." The believer is considered "crucified with Christ", the old man and his nature was nailed to the cross, and we are to be considered DEAD in regards to the Law. You can't bring a change against a dead man. All the sins of the believer were atoned for; past, present, and future (all of your sins were yet future when Christ died). Those who believe receive Christ's righteousness. A righteousness NOT based on their works... but on Christ's work, Jesus truly paid it all. The requirement for Heaven is ABSOLUTE PERFECTION as it is written, "Be ye holy, as I am holy.", and, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." The perfection demanded is the PERFECTION OF GOD, ABSOLUTE PERFECTION... and that is only imputed by God through faith Jesus Christ. For our righteousness to be perfect, it has to be HIS and HIS alone. Overcoming sin in our lives is predicated upon our oneness with Christ, not our efforts. Being one with Christ will allow His righteousness to flow through us and sins are overcome. We still struggle with sin because our minds must be renewed. Sins are increasingly overcome as we put on the mind of Christ Jesus and are conformed into HIS image. All of this is a work of the Holy Spirit, through Christ Jesus, our Lord. Those who "fall away" went out from among us because they were not of us. Yes, they tasted of the heavenly gift... but they were predestined to fall away. God foreknew it and declared it to be so, not altering their fate. The true believer WILL press into Christ Jesus and overcome sin. The new nature imparted demands it. A saint cannot continue in sin. Eventually the prodigal will come home. And when they do they will realize that their heavenly Father NEVER stopped loving them. They were NEVER disowned. And they are welcomed in unconditionally. The story of the prodigal isn't about forgiveness... it's about unconditional acceptance and grace. The prodigal wanted to be allowed back home and was willing to be a servant... HE WAS BUYING INTO A WORKS MENTALITY TO GAIN HIS FATHER'S APPROVAL. The prodigal's father welcomed him in with open arms, had never stopped loving him, and was ready to impart all the righteousness of the family upon him. The legalistic brother was taken aback, because he was works oriented also. Thought his obedience and faithfulness to the family earned him greater standing. Not so. Such is the power of grace.

Last edited by Aquila; 03-29-2011 at 07:54 AM.
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2011, 07:40 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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Originally Posted by OneAccord View Post
I heard a sermon once entitled "Lies in the Bible". I was shocked and started not to listen to it. Turned out to be a really good message. One that I can remember:

" ...we know that God heareh not sinners....". Jhn 9:31 A lie. God hears the sinners prayer of repentance.
God is good. God often hears a sinner's prayer for healing or the healing of their children too. Often an agnostic will pray, "God, if you're real, heal my son." When the man's son is miraculously healed, the man is won to the Lord.

The whole premise of God not hearing "sinners" is based on an assumption of a religious mind in the bondage of the Law and self righteousness.
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  #30  
Old 03-29-2011, 07:56 AM
LUKE2447 LUKE2447 is offline
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Re: 52 Lies Heard in Church Every Sunday:

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MBLUME;1051292]FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS does not mean OSAS.
Blume you never use that term It is not normal to your vocabulary. They use it doctrinal specific. To say it does no have that connotation is amusing because everytime I hear it is always the same people sayingit. SURE I can say I agree with it WITHIN CERTAIN CONTEXT that is not the point. It is used of how atonement is done toward the believer to them. People I know that don't believe OSAS or go toward easy believism.. NEVER use that term. It is very specific jargon.
Quote:
I believe in the finished work of the cross in that we can add nothing to the work Jesus did in order to provide us with all we need to overcome.
Again that is not the point and is not normal jargon. you are just jumping on something to do it saying see I can agree with it which is not he point.

Quote:
That does not mean we cannot lose salvation nor does it mean we have no part to play. It simply means Christ has nothing else to do to provide us with all we need to be saved and live victoriously.
Again you have lost context and arguing against something that is pointless.

Last edited by LUKE2447; 03-29-2011 at 08:23 AM.
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