The "Cracky" and "Wacky" Universalism

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Socialite

What does the garden tell us about God? He wants to provide? What does the serpent's existence tell us about God? He wants us to not trust God's providence. God desires our trust. Us trusting Him that He knows what's best.

You have a lot of explaining to do if you believe The Fall was Plan A, God's will, that is pleases Him... Let's talk about a sadistic God, shall we.

Stop the strawman about him being "powerless" to save. His blood is life. Of course he came and carried the load Himself --- for all who believe. That fact is, I can't even list all the scriptures and quotes from the Gospels that include "for all who believe" "for all who are called" "for those whom he elected" "for those who love the Lord" etc... It would fill a list a couple pages long. Get your pen out!

Let's get back to the argument. Point-for-point, verse-for-verse, we could go on all day like this.

Wasn't the lamb slain before the foundations of the world? Some think that means before the earth was even created, of so, then wouldn't it indeed be plan A?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Wasn't the lamb slain before the foundations of the world? Some think that means before the earth was even created, of so, then wouldn't it indeed be plan A?

Are you just asking to ask? These questions don't match your other posts.

I really don't have time to go down that trail.. at least today. The language in the verse is the key... and that this is from The Revelation should also be considered. There's an answer, but my fingers don't have the drive.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Are you just asking to ask? These questions don't match your other posts.

I really don't have time to go down that trail.. at least today. The language in the verse is the key... and that this is from The Revelation should also be considered. There's an answer, but my fingers don't have the drive.

Asking to get input. Not even sure if that scripture means what many says it does. If does mean what some say it does then it would God knew ahead of time he was coming to save man from sin which means it was Gods will.

I understand about low drive sometimes for the fingers, sometimes I don't it to reply to some posts.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

If there is a burning hell then God does torture sinners.

If I got it right yopu believe hell is just a seperation from God? not an actual physical punishment?

TS, that there is a judgment does not mean God "tortures sinners." Man has condemned himself. He stepped outside of protection that God provided.

In Western thought, stories like Achan, Adam & Eve --- or even David and his generations banned from the Temple don't make sense to us. Corporate responsibility is pushed aside by a relatively new understanding of individual responsibility and free will -- not that those ideas didn't exist before, just that they existed in a different perspective. This is pretty important so we don't have a limited perspective about free will vs. predestination, etc.

Adam's fail was indicative of all of mankind. You can't explain that not only did this affect man's moral life and, therefore, every area of relationship, but it affected the ground. It affected the material universe, the physical universe. And Romans 8 says: "The whole creation groans" under this curse. The reason there is disintegration, death and all of that in the entire universe goes right back to Genesis Chapter 3.

Whether we came out sinning or just inclined by nature toward sin -- we could argue. But the fact is, even in the womb we were "in sin." Imputed sin.

Us Post-Enlightenment Moderns can struggle over the free will nature of that, but it's the reality of scripture --- and as far as I've seen, it's the reality of human nature. We aren't inclined toward goodness.

[Socialite]

Crak -- feedback, comments from the original posts in this thread?

Let's get into the meat and potatoes.

[Truthseeker]

If there is a hell then who created it? God did. For what purpose? to punish the wicked.

I think we just don't like saying God tortures the wicked in a buring infernal, but he created, deciodes who goes and long it would be. IMO, no way around not accepting God punishes sinners.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

If there is a hell then who created it? God did. For what purpose? to punish the wicked.

I think we just don't like saying God tortures the wicked in a buring infernal, but he created, deciodes who goes and long it would be. IMO, no way around not accepting God punishes sinners.

TS, there's not a "way around" there's just a different perspective.

Also, I do not believe that Hell is a physical torture chamber. You were correct in your previous assumption.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Socialite

TS, there's not a "way around" there's just a different perspective.

Also, I do not believe that Hell is a physical torture chamber. You were correct in your previous assumption.

I have doubts about the hell being an actual burning place myself. Do think when Jesus preached hell it was tied into the destruction of jerusalem, but that's another thread.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Crak -- feedback, comments from the original posts in this thread?

Let's get into the meat and potatoes.

I have addressed all of those on other threads, however give me time and I will walk thru them again for all the newbies.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Crackjack, you do not dissapoint!

I do not agree with you but that doesnt mean I dont respect your study and commitment to the cause!

Be blessed my friend!

Thanks, Ferd, appriecate your kind words. You are special folks in my book.

Your new building is looking great, how does everyone like being in full view of all of Dallas?