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  #21  
Old 12-10-2010, 09:35 AM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

So much to address here:

First, DM, liberals like to point to Acts to somehow suppoert the notion of socialism. What was going on in the NT church was FREEWILL giving---not confiscatory taxation! The CHURCH was taking care of the community of believers that were struggling, not the government! And there is plenty of evidence that there were wealthy and industrious people in the NT church that owned property and had the means to give to the poor. And the poor in Biblical times? Widows and orphans! The book of James talks about taking care of them, but it does not mean to give to every impoverished individual simply b/c they're poor, nor does it imply socialism! The Bible does promote freedom, liberty and a man's mpwork being rewarded with income and prosperity. The Biblical scales tilt heavily toward hard work, investing, wise stewardship, budgeting, living within your means, refraining from borrowing and indebtedness. The admonitions to help the poor are to God's people, not governments! Your blanket "heartless" label may make you feel right, but you're WAAAYYY off on this one!

Two years is plenty of time to find some kind of work and income. And if we are paying people more in unemployment benefits than what they can find working, its time to motivate them to work two jobs, get creative, make sacrifices like give up the cellphone, internet, cable TV, cigarettes, fast food and junk food. Many we are funding aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get back on their feet.

Second, what's this "system" you're talking about? America is not "The System"! Its "We The People"! We don't owe the "system" anything more than what is needed for military protection, infrastructure and a few other bare bones necessities. If "the system" would leave us alone we would be even more productive, inventive and prosperous! Our impoverished, truly needy people, would benefit more because there would be more to give, charities would not have to beg for help and many more would be able to have a higher standard of living. Our forefathers started this nation to break away from a confiscatory "system" that made life hard and unfair. They built this nation free from the intrusion of big government. This idea of government control of every aspect of our lives has only been around about 70 years. Before then our nation was the envy of the world. Now we are watching the West lose its affluence and power to Asia. "The borrower is a slave to the lender". We are slowly giving away our freedoms to the lending nations of Asia. In 2-3 generations we will have willfully handed our great way of life over to the Chinese and Indians.

We owe the system or the system has a right to take back what its given us? I wish you were kidding. Its scary because there are many out there that think like you amd it is this mentality that will dismantle our way of life!

Jermyn, love ya bro, but "political hypocrisy"? Really? Where do we draw the line at deepening this deficit and national debt? The opposite of "trickle down" is "trickle up" and we know that poor people don't create jobs, industries, businesses, inventions, etc. They don't hire, they don't make payroll, they don't employ. But if we give those who do more freedom to do so, those poor folk will have jobs to increase their standard of living. But we can't keep printing money and borrowing money to make things easier for everyone. Cpaitialism in its purest form requires winners and losers. It requires ups and downs. It requires ebbs and flows. That's not cruel or heartless or hypocritical, that's life.

Any parent who would try to shield their child from ever suffering or feeling pain or being told no or having to sacrifice is doing them a great disservice. Our nation does the same when we try to provide everyone with a pain-free, struggle-free, difficulty-free life. Pain, suffering, poverty, struggle are all great teachers and have motivated many to work hard and to use their God-given creativity and ingenuity to make a better way of life for themselves.

The failed efforts of LBJ's War on Poverty since 1964 has proven trillions and trillions of dollars later that its impossible to eliminate poverty. The WoP actually created more impoverished people than reduced them in number.
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‎When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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  #22  
Old 12-10-2010, 09:37 AM
sandie sandie is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind View Post
Collecting taxes is not stealing! Jesus paid taxes and said render unto Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar. So what is your argument now?
In this country, under our system of government, we aren't taxed without representation. The majority of Americans do NOT want their taxes RAISED.
To raise them anyway is stealing from the American people.
We also have a system in place for those who wish to pay more taxes.

I sure hope you're putting your money where your mouth is, DM. Are you? Are you paying more taxes then required?
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  #23  
Old 12-10-2010, 10:17 AM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

Sandie, what DM fails to put into context is that Jesus was not placing His blessings on confiscatory taxation, He was reinforcing the issue of obedience to the authorities. The Jews hated Rome and its occupation. They hated tax collectors who were Jews collaborating with the Empire to produce revenue for Caesar. Many Jews thought that paying taxes to Rome was an act of heresy, supporting the heathen kings and his government. Jesus simply tells his questioners that we should obey the law and we should give to God what He requires.

I would never advocate anyone disobeying tax laws even though I oppose high taxes and big government. For DM to characterize Jesus' statement as an endorsement of the types of taxation we see today is completely off base. If that's the case then America should've remained a British colony and accepted unfair and unjust taxation.
__________________

‎When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2010, 10:28 AM
sandie sandie is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by deacon blues View Post
Sandie, what DM fails to put into context is that Jesus was not placing His blessings on confiscatory taxation, He was reinforcing the issue of obedience to the authorities. The Jews hated Rome and its occupation. They hated tax collectors who were Jews collaborating with the Empire to produce revenue for Caesar. Many Jews thought that paying taxes to Rome was an act of heresy, supporting the heathen kings and his government. Jesus simply tells his questioners that we should obey the law and we should give to God what He requires.

I would never advocate anyone disobeying tax laws even though I oppose high taxes and big government. For DM to characterize Jesus' statement as an endorsement of the types of taxation we see today is completely off base. If that's the case then America should've remained a British colony and accepted unfair and unjust taxation.
I hope he and others who have a convoluted view of God and government read your posts. They're informative, to say the least.

It boggles my mind to hear people who love God think the "system" is owed anything.
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  #25  
Old 12-10-2010, 10:35 AM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

Paul wrote to believers who were entrenched in a slave culture to basically "be a good slave and obey your master". Does that mean that God endorses slavery? Certainly not! But when a Christian finds himself in a situation that is less than ideal, one must still be godly and embrace the higher principles of the faith. Nevertheless slavery is evil and was rightfully removed from our nation. Paying taxes is the law but that doesn't make it favored by God. Nevertheless we as Christians embrace the higher principle of obeying the laws of the land even if taxation fundamentally is flawed. In the meantime we work to change the culture, the policies, the laws through political acticvism and our vote.
__________________

‎When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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  #26  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:00 AM
Light Light is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandie View Post
Bravo!

It doesn't matter to the left what the facts are, they're so steeped in their ideology today that if the truth grew arms, legs, sat on their laps and called them "momma", they still wouldn't reconize it. All to the harm of the rest of society.
The mindset that says take from those who work, earn and give to those who don't is a thought process that is bringing down Europe, (see London today) and is working overtime to do the same here.
Not to mention it's counter to the Word of God.
Tell me what did the FIRST Christians on the DAY OF PENTECOST do?
Use bible now, not your opinion.
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  #27  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:06 AM
Light Light is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

I thought you republicans were for paying as you go. It seems all republicans who vote for this mess are simply liars. They ran on "ALL BILLS MUST BE PAID FOR" What hypocrites!!! This bill will add more that 1 TRILLION to the debt.
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  #28  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:09 AM
sandie sandie is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
Tell me what did the FIRST Christians on the DAY OF PENTECOST do?
Use bible now, not your opinion.
They recieved the HG, Peter preached the Gospel and thereafter they must have been pretty busy baptizing 3,000 people.
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  #29  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:09 AM
deacon blues deacon blues is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

They WILLFULLY shared and made sure no one went without. No law forced them to do it! No government came along and demanded they helped each other out. It was an act of liberty and freedom. No one confiscated their belongings and property and wealth and made them do it.

You are totally misapplying scripture if you think you can make a case for socialism based on Acts. There is 10 times more Bible for hard work, investing, stewardship, wise business practices, etc. than you could ever find for some sort of socialistic philosophy.
__________________

‎When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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  #30  
Old 12-10-2010, 11:12 AM
sandie sandie is offline
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Re: Obama/GOP Compromise: Bad Deal for Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Light View Post
I thought you republicans were for paying as you go. It seems all republicans who vote for this mess are simply liars. They ran on "ALL BILLS MUST BE PAID FOR" What hypocrites!!! This bill will add more that 1 TRILLION to the debt.
Guess that makes Pelosi the biggest liar of all....she is the one who said it will be "pay as you go".....
Can you breath all right with your head in the sand like that? I'm worried about ya...
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