Other upci splits

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I don't think any of these constitute a "split". All were less than ten percent of constituency. The WWPF perhaps came close - but remember those who originally "signed up" were under wrong impression that they could stay UPC if they chose to. When it became clear that would not be tolerated, a significant number recanted there allegiance to the World Wide Wrestling group.

I've got news for you Hoovie, it is still tolerated.
If either group, WPF or UPC, enforces a one organization rule, you will see a lot more GIB's.
There has been some selective enforcement, but it is totally dependant on the local district.

[Socialite]

Fractions, Schisms, Splits.... the repeated and redundant trend of 20th and 21st Pentecostalism.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Socialite

A cursory review of Pentecostal review will reveal a "movement" that consists of schism after schism and split after split. Nothing has changed. It will continue as well.

Yep, and while pentecostalism claims to be different than all those "dead-religion" liturgical denominations, it's really no different at all....just a little louder and armed with tongues. My mind is boggled with I consider how many different directions major groups of people have headed with the bible.

Does anyone besides me ever wonder why God didn't give us a clear set of guidelines so that all this could have been avoided? Surely this isn't what He wanted "The Church" to look like.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

Could you explain? How did their views differ?

M. E. Burr wrote a book called "New Testament Church Government & Tithing" he was the editor of the Texas Sentinel. He advocated local church sovereighty under the leadership of the local pastor. That the pastor over pastor political system of the UPC was unscriptural. The elected officials held no divine office due to an political election and had no authority over the local church. Elder Burr was thrown out of the organization because he would not recant. Several notable Brethren defended him and many of them were thrown out. Thus they formed the AMF at Baker, La. 1968.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

M. E. Burr wrote a book called "New Testament Church Government & Tithing" he was the editor of the Texas Sentinel. He advocated local church sovereighty under the leadership of the local pastor. That the pastor over pastor political system of the UPC was unscriptural. The elected officials held no divine office due to an political election and had no authority over the local church. Elder Burr was thrown out of the organization because he would not recant. Several notable Brethren defended him and many of them were thrown out. Thus they formed the AMF at Baker, La. 1968.

How do you feel about Burr's opinions? I fairly well agree, myself.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by notofworks

How do you feel about Burr's opinions? I fairly well agree, myself.

opinions on what?

Some of his opinions you might have problems with.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Sam

opinions on what?

Some of his opinions you might have problems with.

Well, I was limiting the question to what SE posted about, the church government opinions...the unscriptural ideas of elected organizational leadership.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Well, I was limiting the question to what SE posted about, the church government opinions...the unscriptural ideas of elected organizational leadership.

The tasks are organizational. We know the Apostles appointed 7 men over the food distribution tasks, for example. They all agreed upon such a man. Elders were appointed by the Apostles as well.

The Apostles are gone now -- and IMO, are not intended to be replaced. But how does the Church go about positioning elders today? What do you believe is the right way?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Well, I was limiting the question to what SE posted about, the church government opinions...the unscriptural ideas of elected organizational leadership.

OK,

I used to get the Texas Sentinel when Bro. Burr was editor and for a while I got the AMF magazine, plus I've also read his booklet on women's hair and I know you wouldn't go along with lots of the stuff he taught.

Bro. Burr was a very good writer.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The tasks are organizational. We know the Apostles appointed 7 men over the food distribution tasks, for example. They all agreed upon such a man. Elders were appointed by the Apostles as well.

The Apostles are gone now -- and IMO, are not intended to be replaced. But how does the Church go about positioning elders today? What do you believe is the right way?

I have fallen in love with the Willow Creek way of providing resources, ideas, inspiration, and direction for any church that volunteers to become involved. In my 6 years of belonging to the Willow Creek Association, I have been provided with multitudes of more ideas and resources than my 6 years of being licensed in the UPC, and my 11 years of "belonging" elsewhere. Plus, there's no official "Leadership", as in someone with authority to dictate what the local church does. It feels incredibly New Testament.

And there are other similar groups out there, for example, The Mosaic Alliance, of which we're also a member. Their help hasn't been quite as great in quantity, but more helpful in person-to-person help.