Faith without works is........

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

so faith is not a mans response? Man has no ability to trust at all? If man does not have the faculty to believe then he is totaly depraved of any ability to respond.

When the Word of Life is preached the seed is planted and the gift of faith is sprouted.

Jesus did say however sometimes said ground is rocky or full of thorns and the fowls of the air take that seed. Many different words consist of those seeds...

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

When the Word of Life is preached the seed is planted and the gift of faith is sprouted.

Jesus did say however sometimes said ground is rocky or full of thorns and the fowls of the air take that seed. Many different words consist of those seeds...

so the ground doesn't reject the seed by it's own choosing and love. The below sounds like typical human response to me on many levels of how people react to anything marketing etc...

Mar 4:15 And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them.
Mar 4:16 And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy.
Mar 4:17 And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away.
Mar 4:18 And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word,
Mar 4:19 but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
Mar 4:20 But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold."

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

so this sounds as if man has no part and man does nothing? It's God's fault then if we don't believe.... nice

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Back then many did not even believe Jesus was the Messiah so in this passage (Considering audience relevance) the Father was in essence "Working" over time to convince them, either way it's still a divine revelation to accept Christ and that is a gift from God...

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Back then many did not even believe Jesus was the Messiah so in this passage (Considering audience relevance) the Father was in essence "Working" over time to convince them, either way it's still a divine revelation to accept Christ and that is a gift from God...

again "revelation" or Word coming forth and placing trust are two different things. You are mixing the two. Either you believe in free will or not. We choose in the end what we want.

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

again "revelation" or Word coming forth and placing trust are two different things. You are mixing the two. Either you believe in free will or not. We choose in the end what we want.

The seed has to be watered by the Spirit does it not? Fear or lack of trust sounds like "Satan" stealing the seed. Free will has nothing to do with a gift, it has to do with choosing to be blessed or cursed...

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by SteppingStone

The seed has to be watered by the Spirit does it not? Fear or lack of trust sounds like "Satan" stealing the seed. Free will has nothing to do with a gift, it has to do with choosing to be blessed or cursed...

and somewhere in here you don't see YOU are the one choosing? LOL! It is the WAR OF CHOICE! God draws you and so does the world. YOU CHOOSE! Free will is not a gift? God gives man the ability to trust which in that essence is a gift of his human faculty. We are made in his image. Thus "to choose" right and wrong IS a God given gift. In that essence "trust" or "faith" can be considered a human faculty. I trust people all the time. It is "reasoning"! Faithfulness is a blessing and lawlessness is cursing. Paul compelled to DO and BE FAITHFUL. JEsus compelled change if he simply is waiving his wand of faith (in how many teach they would simply do it) "faith" would be forced. Why chastise if no free will? If we don't choose how can he attempt to change our minds or would he attempt so. IS his Words not compelling? OD we have to have tow aspects of compelling to change? Doesn't the WORD itself compel us?

How can WE present if we don't choose FAITH?

Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification

[oletime]

Faith without works IIIIIS NOW !!!

[Jack Shephard]

Since we are saved By Grace through Faith I and works must accompany salvation here is exactly what I was thinking when I started this thread. For many, many years people in this movement have said the "works" =t Acts 2:38. I don't exactly agree accept for baptism and the tongues are evidences of what a saved person does or has active in their life. These don't save the person, but are additions to a saved life. Perhaps better said that saved people should be baptized and continue to seek the things of God. Tongues are a manifestation of the HG whether they happen immediately or later on. But honestly I believe that the "works" it is talking about is the reaching to the hurting/the poor and living a Christ-Life. Works does not = Acts 2:38.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Since we are saved By Grace through Faith I and works must accompany salvation here is exactly what I was thinking when I started this thread. For many, many years people in this movement have said the "works" =t Acts 2:38. I don't exactly agree accept for baptism and the tongues are evidences of what a saved person does or has active in their life. These don't save the person, but are additions to a saved life. Perhaps better said that saved people should be baptized and continue to seek the things of God. Tongues are a manifestation of the HG whether they happen immediately or later on. But honestly I believe that the "works" it is talking about is the reaching to the hurting/the poor and living a Christ-Life. Works does not = Acts 2:38.

Been Thinkin

[SteppingStone]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

and somewhere in here you don't see YOU are the one choosing? LOL! It is the WAR OF CHOICE! God draws you and so does the world. YOU CHOOSE! Free will is not a gift? God gives man the ability to trust which in that essence is a gift of his human faculty. We are made in his image. Thus "to choose" right and wrong IS a God given gift. In that essence "trust" or "faith" can be considered a human faculty. I trust people all the time. It is "reasoning"! Faithfulness is a blessing and lawlessness is cursing. Paul compelled to DO and BE FAITHFUL. JEsus compelled change if he simply is waiving his wand of faith (in how many teach they would simply do it) "faith" would be forced. Why chastise if no free will? If we don't choose how can he attempt to change our minds or would he attempt so. IS his Words not compelling? OD we have to have tow aspects of compelling to change? Doesn't the WORD itself compel us?

How can WE present if we don't choose FAITH?

Rom 6:19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification

I'm choosing a blessing which is a gift from God...