further thoughts on "trinity" and "oneness"
this is a quote from Bro. Daniel Segrave's blog of January 2009.
He is quoting someone that we would call "trinity"
The full blog can be found at http://danielsegraves.blogspot.com/2...1_archive.html
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The word ‘person’ has changed its meaning since the third century when it began to be used in connection with the ‘threefoldness of God’. When we talk about God as a person, we naturally think of God as being one person. But theologians such as Tertullian, writing in the third century, used the word ‘person’ with a different meaning. The word ‘person’ originally derives from the Latin word persona, meaning an actor’s face-mask—and, by extension, the role which he takes in a play.
By stating that there were three persons but only one God, Tertullian was asserting that all three major roles in the great drama of human redemption are played by the one and the same God. The three great roles in this drama are all played by the same actor: God. Each of these roles may reveal God in a somewhat different way, but it is the same God in every case. So when we talk about God as one person, we mean one person in the modern sense of the word, and when we talk about God as three persons, we mean three persons in the ancient sense of the word. . . . Confusing these two senses of the word ‘person’ inevitably leads to the idea that God is actually a committee . . . .
Consider this. This is a forum for Apostolic believers. The definition given by the moderators includes if Im not mistaken the Oneness of God and baptism in Jesus name.
Trinitarianism considers this "Apostolic" doctrine to be heresy. If you dont know this just type in a search on Oneness Pentecostal heresy.
So for someone to present the fact that they are being ordained as a Minister in a Trinitarian Church should seem rather "inappropriate" on this Forum. Amen?
I respectfully disagree brother. Sam is ordained by God to go out and preach the Gospel, not the Oneness-pel. I don't care what "Church" it is, if God opens the door to preach His truth we should walk in it. This is a huge opportunity!! Are you telling me you wouldn't take it? Go preach in the Spirit of humility and love and God will draw in those that He chooses, even if it's only one soul amongst a thousand....
I dont question your knowledge of Oneness doctrine. Matter of fact from what I can tell you may be the only one on the Forum that agrees with ME on Oneness doctrine. To bad I cant find a smiley to put here!
Its just that I cant grasp how you could want to be an Elder in a Church that opposes such a wonderful truth. I dont know if you have been asked this before but what is your Churches position about Oneness Doctrine? I know they are Trins but what do they say about those of us who believe Jesus is the Father, Son, and Spirit?
I respectfully disagree brother. Sam is ordained by God to go out and preach the Gospel, not the Oneness-pel. I don't care what "Church" it is, if God opens the door to preach His truth we should walk in it. This is a huge opportunity!! Are you telling me you wouldn't take it? Go preach in the Spirit of humility and love and God will draw in those that He chooses, even if it's only one soul amongst a thousand....
And I respectfully disagree with you Bro. We can go out and preach the gospel without having ordination from some organization. Would I take it? No. I was ordained in time past by two different Trinitarian groups. When I became Oneness I did not last long in them.
When you say opportunity what do you mean? To teach error? Believe me the first time I mentioned Acts 2:38 in a sermon at a Church where I had been in Eldership I was taken aside by the Pastor and told I could not teach that. Would I have liked to stay there? Very much so.
I had to choose between the truth of Jesus or mens fellowship. I felt the loss deeply. But I also felt the favor of YHWH that I had been obedient in teaching them the truth.
I have preached and witnessed to far more people on the streets than I have in Church buildings. We are only constrained from witnessing and preaching by our own unwillingness.
Its just that I cant grasp how you could want to be an Elder in a Church that opposes such a wonderful truth. I dont know if you have been asked this before but what is your Churches position about Oneness Doctrine? I know they are Trins but what do they say about those of us who believe Jesus is the Father, Son, and Spirit?
Do they know that you are Oneness?
I think that Sam has said, and I have found also, that most "Trins" believe that there is one God, just like we do. Unless they are into arguing theology and tearing apart the Bible, they usually just say it is a mystery and leave it at that.
I grew up in a "Trin" church and never knew people thought I believed in 3 gods! LOL Then when I joined a oneness church, they acted like I had been taught by the devil himself. I was like, I believe just as you do, it isn't my fault that the Bible uses the names Father, Son and Holy Spirit to describe God instead of just saying Jesus all along!!
I dont question your knowledge of Oneness doctrine. Matter of fact from what I can tell you may be the only one on the Forum that agrees with ME on Oneness doctrine. To bad I cant find a smiley to put here!
Its just that I cant grasp how you could want to be an Elder in a Church that opposes such a wonderful truth. I dont know if you have been asked this before but what is your Churches position about Oneness Doctrine? I know they are Trins but what do they say about those of us who believe Jesus is the Father, Son, and Spirit?
Do they know that you are Oneness?
In my opinion, whether we classify ourselves as trinity or oneness, we pretty much believe the same. Discussions or explanations of God's threeness and oneness can get pretty weird. I do not consider understanding or explaining "the Godhead" to be part of being saved or a point of fellowship.
In my opinion, water and Spirit baptism are not necessary for salvation so folks who have not been water baptized, or who have been water baptized in "the titles" are as saved as I am.
I believe water baptism is important. I believe that it should be done by immersion whenever possible and that the name "Jesus" should be spoken. But I realize not all Christians are in agreement with that.
The church's position on "the oneness doctrine" is the same as mine. Understanding/explaining the "Godhead" is not part of being saved and salvation is a gift we accept from God and it is not dependent on our being baptized in water and our being baptized in the Spirit.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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