Ted Haggard

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I do not believe he should serve in the ministry. There are many qualifications he is lacking from 1 Timothy 3.

The example of David is not the same. David's example is closer to that of Bill Clinton. Sure Clinton failed, but He could repent and still serve God. (I'm not indicating that BC was or is saved, only making the point that there is a difference between a political leader and a spiritual leader).

Furthermore, this whole thing came to light prety recently. I think these guys want to preach because they don't want to work a secular job. Todd Bentley comes to mind. They are exposed with some scandal, and it seems just as soon as its no longer national news thy're chomping at the bit to get back. It smacks of a hirling to me, not repentance.

Ditto.

And repentance is not the question. As you said, it's qualification.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Sam, this is bologna.

We're all flawed. The Spiritual man must kep the flesh under subjection, and none of us have that mastered. however there is a big difference between being not yet made perfect, and running around living a secret life filled with adultery, homosexuality (paying for sex with other men at that) and rampant drug use that would put some street junkies to shame, THEN within a short time of being exposed, all of a sudden everything is all right?

I'm sick of this anything goes Christianity. I think its time for someone to take a stand in the church. There's alot of folks who think taking a stand means women wear dresses, and men shave their beards, but thats not what God's concerned with.

however I am quite certain that God is concerned with people bringing shame to the name of Christ, which is why the Word of God specifically condemns many of the actions of TH. Lying, adultery, fornication, effeminate, etc. Its like reading 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 yet it doesn't seem to matter to some of you folks.

Can TH be saved, I would say if he truly repents, my opinion would be yes. But He should repent and be greatful to God for the grace and mercy of God. But Pastor, I don't think so, and I don't think there is any scripture for someone to pastor after doing such things, and being found out by the world AFTER they are a Christian.

There's a HUGE difference in being a liar, adulterer, fornicator, abuser, etc. as a sinner, then converting VERSES being a well known "man of God" who garners national attention for doing all of those things.

And again, its not like He backslid, went under the radar for a while and after sitting under another ministry and being evaluated for a while came back. He came back almost as quickly as He left.

As for the call of God. Maybe God does have a call on his life, the gifts of God are without repentance. I don't believe that if a minister sins God takes the call or burden out of their heart, but they must face the reality that they have disqualified themselves from the ministry.

Again I repeat, I don't think David should be considered in an issue like this. The question isn't can this man repent and find forgiveness, the question is does he have business having the spiritual authoridy/guidance over other believers, including new converts and babes in Christ. I say absolutely not.

WOW!!! thats a pretty high standard...in fact...I think only Christ himself lived up to that one.

if God can forgive any sin...then I must believe that He can also restore. He uses all sorts of vessels...even ones I don't agree with.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by edjen01

WOW!!! thats a pretty high standard...in fact...I think only Christ himself lived up to that one.

if God can forgive any sin...then I must believe that He can also restore. He uses all sorts of vessels...even ones I don't agree with.

This is not to get off the subject, but when I saw your post, I thought of a John Wimber quote.
We have all been called to love the things Jesus loves, so we have no choice but to love the whole church --even the denominations whose beliefs we may not agree with or those parts we do not understand. John Wimber

[allstate1]

Well didnt Peter deny Christ? I would think that is a (bad) sin. We stll believe in his writings and some even unto salvation! ie Acts 2:38

[Sam]

Originally Posted by allstate1

Well didnt Peter deny Christ? I would think that is a (bad) sin. We stll believe in his writings and some even unto salvation! ie Acts 2:38

Notice where Jesus sent His disciples to start out.
He sent them to Jerusalem.
--back to where they had all scattered and run away
--back to where Peter had publicly denied Him three times
--back to where people had heard of them and had seen them off and on over a period of time and were acquainted with their humanness and weakness
--back to where they were controversial and followers of a controversial "new" religion
--back to a "religious" center
--back to where the concept of grace and forgiveness were unknown, and buried under tradition and performance based religion
--back to where the "church world leaders" of the time did not agree with them and worked against them using the religious and political power of the day.

It would have been much easier to go off somewhere where they were unknown and make a new start but Jesus had them face their failures and inadequacies and rumor and gossip and depend on His power and anointing.

The religious world of today does not have much of a concept of grace and forgiveness and starting over with God. They tend to hold the past against us. They don't realize that God is in the business of creating new creatures and that His mercies are new every morning.

[Aquila]

I have mixed feelings about it. Probably too soon to get into something so big. He needs to be tested by a little more time in my opinion. Even with that said... I'd be more comfortable if he wasn't a senior pastor.

I wonder how many of the dear pastors we love would be looked at if we knew their secret faults, sins, and struggles....

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by edjen01

WOW!!! thats a pretty high standard...in fact...I think only Christ himself lived up to that one.

if God can forgive any sin...then I must believe that He can also restore. He uses all sorts of vessels...even ones I don't agree with.

One word:

CONTEXT

Hoovie understood the point I was making perfectly, I think you missed it.

[seekerman]

Folks can freely decide to attend church there or not, it's not like anyone would be forced to attend. If they're comfortable with Haggard as their pastor then so be it.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Maybe he's got something to prove... to others and himself.


Is there something to be said for the fact that he purposely did not go to a place where he would not be known to restart his ministry?

It's like he is putting himself on blast for all to see.

Talk about accountability!!!

Originally Posted by seekerman

Folks can freely decide to attend church there or not, it's not like anyone would be forced to attend. If they're comfortable with Haggard as their pastor then so be it.

I agree.

Again, I think it was a very gutsy decision to make to go back there and Pastor. It wouldn't surprise me to find out if he actually felt impressed by the Lord to do this.


Ted Haggard has nothing more to hide. Hopefully.

What an awesome freedom he must experiencing, if he is really free from the clutches of that destructive, secret sin.


Maybe the Lord will use Haggard to spark some kind of revival, a restoration of sorts for all of the hurting and sinning Christians and former Christians.


I hope the scripture that would apply to his life and ministry is Haggai 2:9.

It's definitely not impossible.