For those that left the UPC...

[GraceAmazing]

Thanks Shag...I mean that. It took me a long time to get to the point that ultimately, it was about HIM and not me and not what my daughter wanted....I'm thankful I became connected with a wonderful Pastor and his wife who gave us balance and biblical truths to stand upon...

[Jack Shephard]

This is no easy choice. My guess is that the husband has been asking himself questions for years but the answer he is giving himself is either, "it is a God-given conviction" or "it is all I have ever known and it is something I am convienced of" Neither are correct necassarily. It can be a conviction but the key is make sure it is a God-thing and not the man-thing. I am of the belief that often times the "god" we hear is actually the preachers voice ringing in our head. It is so very easy to confuse a voice that you have possibly NEVER heard and the one you often hear because after all the minister/pastor is the voice of God in the assembly. Not TIC.

I have been there before. I left and my wife stayed because of her family and frankly she thought I was losing it I am sure. After about 1 year away I returned so I could save my family. My wife and I still attend a UPC church. Our UPC church has changed a bit. It is much more comfortable now. My wife has balanced out and see things similar to how I see them because she sought them out for herself in the bible and found there is no basis for some of those things. Mirth1981 I urge you to consider this. What is your faith's foundation? Is the foundation the standards, don'ts, can'ts, and all the similar things or is the foundation actually Jesus and His message? The reason I ask you is because once some of the "extras" are cutaway (no pun intended) is your foundation safe? Mine was set on the "extras" and I am still feeling the ramifications from it. I know that I heard from God and God alone on how I am to live, but if you build a foundation with faulty supplies it will NOT stand and the house will ultimately crash down. This is why when some home owners do additions the whole of the original home doesn't continue with integrity because the foundation is insufficent. But if the foundation is completely solid and upon HIM once you cutaway the "extras" then your houses strenght and fortification will not have suffered.

[Mirth1981]

[QUOTE=GraceAmazing;912975]I was there at this point in 2008...my husband was a licensed UPC minister and we have over 25 licensed ministers in our family...I NEVER thought I would get to that point either, but after having a daughter (who at 4 began to question EVERYTHING), I did some research to try to justify to our daughter why we held to the standards that we kept...I was surprised at what I found out...QUOTE]

Do you mind if I ask...Did your husband see it at the same time as you did? Did you wait to act on what you discovered? How did you handle it?

I think my husband is worried I'm just going to go out and buy all blue jeans and whack my hair short and "paint" my face, and just go NUTS...but that isn't the case. Wanting to cut my hair or wear makeup is not what this is about. I am trying to keep my attitude in check with the Lord...I have really been examining my own spirit lately, because I see how judgmental others can be, but yet I find myself judging others based on appearance too...this is so wrong! Jesus addressed this mindset multiple times, and especially came down hard on the Pharisees.

I want you all to know how much I appreciate your responses. Each of your experiences are unique, and I'm thankful that you're willing to share them. They have been an encouragement to me.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

This is no easy choice. My guess is that the husband has been asking himself questions for years but the answer he is giving himself is either, "it is a God-given conviction" or "it is all I have ever known and it is something I am convienced of"

Yep! You guessed right. He shuts me down when I bring up the topic lately. I think he is going to refuse to take a stand, but I'm praying that he will study for himself.

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Mirth1981 I urge you to consider this. What is your faith's foundation? Is the foundation the standards, don'ts, can'ts, and all the similar things or is the foundation actually Jesus and His message? The reason I ask you is because once some of the "extras" are cutaway (no pun intended) is your foundation safe? Mine was set on the "extras" and I am still feeling the ramifications from it. I know that I heard from God and God alone on how I am to live, but if you build a foundation with faulty supplies it will NOT stand and the house will ultimately crash down. This is why when some home owners do additions the whole of the original home doesn't continue with integrity because the foundation is insufficent. But if the foundation is completely solid and upon HIM once you cutaway the "extras" then your houses strenght and fortification will not have suffered.

By "extras" do you mean "standards"? I do feel like I have a strong relationship with God, although I want it to be stronger. I think that has been pushing me to study these things out for myself lately. I've actually been feeling even closer to the Lord lately since I've been studying more, and really wanting to PLEASE Him (and not just the pastor or people in the church). I've been so thankful for his mercy lately...more so than I ever have before. It's less about me and more about HIM. I'm realizing how much God loves me...and that I don't have to do ANYTHING to EARN His love.

Just a question: Do you have a hard time attending the UPC church when they preach things over the pulpit that you don't agree with? I went to church tonight and a few times "standards" were slipped in, and it bothered me. I want to attend a church that believes in the Holy Ghost and baptism in Jesus Name, but I don't think any other church in our area does besides the UPC church. So at this point in time, my options are few...but I don't know if I can continue where I'm at either.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Yep! You guessed right. He shuts me down when I bring up the topic lately. I think he is going to refuse to take a stand, but I'm praying that he will study for himself.



By "extras" do you mean "standards"? I do feel like I have a strong relationship with God, although I want it to be stronger. I think that has been pushing me to study these things out for myself lately. I've actually been feeling even closer to the Lord lately since I've been studying more, and really wanting to PLEASE Him (and not just the pastor or people in the church). I've been so thankful for his mercy lately...more so than I ever have before. It's less about me and more about HIM. I'm realizing how much God loves me...and that I don't have to do ANYTHING to EARN His love.

Just a question: Do you have a hard time attending the UPC church when they preach things over the pulpit that you don't agree with? I went to church tonight and a few times "standards" were slipped in, and it bothered me. I want to attend a church that believes in the Holy Ghost and baptism in Jesus Name, but I don't think any other church in our area does besides the UPC church. So at this point in time, my options are few...but I don't know if I can continue where I'm at either.

Well to answer your question is tough at times. Now having said that I have a really good church. They are much more liberal or middle of the road than most UPC churches. The times that standards are ever mentioned, which is extremely rare, is when they are talking about how they are more of a good practice than anything. They are not taught as heaven or hell basically. My pastor told me he sees nothing wrong with a man wearing shorts to his knees because women wear skirts to there knees. He has also said that he has no bible for women wearing slacks that have been tailored to their body type. Like instead of a women wear a mans pair of slacks if they wore a pair that is strickly ladies pants he can't say that is wrong. Now there are very few if any that wear slacks. The typical standards are mainly followed by those in leadership.

I was talking about standards when I was using "extras". The thing about going to a oneness church that is not hardcore standards or hell type of deal. If the only oneness church around is yours then you have a tough choice. I would never lead anyone away from a oneness church or any church for that matter. You might want to do some serious research on other types of churches in your area. Some AOG churchs baptize in Jesus name too. Consider following the cloud of the spirit and not just sticking to a banner like oneness. If you are at the place where you are questioning the standards then one thing that I recommend is to really search the other things that you believe like the salvation plan. I would do this to make sure that your foundation is correct according to scripture. If you do this now it might save you some heart and headaches later. Plus this way you know that you know that you know. Know what I mean?

[Jack Shephard]

One more thing. You say that he shuts you down when you bring it up. That is probably because he is thinking one of a few things. First, he might be hoping if you all don't talk about it then the desire and feelings will fade. Second, he just doesn't have ANY answers. Third, he might be questioning his beliefs in quiet but since he doesn't have answers for you then will not have any for himself. Besides that fact that he is a leader and by the unwritten rule no one is suppose to question nothing. With everything that has been said please remember that NOTHING is more importnat than your family unit. Nothing is important enough to risk losing the family over, but don't let anyone bully you to change either. You must find that balance.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

If you are at the place where you are questioning the standards then one thing that I recommend is to really search the other things that you believe like the salvation plan. I would do this to make sure that your foundation is correct according to scripture. If you do this now it might save you some heart and headaches later. Plus this way you know that you know that you know. Know what I mean?

Yes, I totally know what you mean. I have been studying everything, especially the plan of salvation, which is way more important than any "holiness standards".

I still feel very strongly about water baptism in Jesus name and Holy Ghost baptism with the evidence of tongues. These are things that I have experienced myself and know to be genuine (unlike standards...I have always just felt to "submit" myself and blindly follow those, in spite of my doubts). There are many scriptures to support water and spirit baptism.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

One more thing. You say that he shuts you down when you bring it up. That is probably because he is thinking one of a few things. First, he might be hoping if you all don't talk about it then the desire and feelings will fade. Second, he just doesn't have ANY answers. Third, he might be questioning his beliefs in quiet but since he doesn't have answers for you then will not have any for himself. Besides that fact that he is a leader and by the unwritten rule no one is suppose to question nothing. With everything that has been said please remember that NOTHING is more importnat than your family unit. Nothing is important enough to risk losing the family over, but don't let anyone bully you to change either. You must find that balance.

I don't want to make any huge decisions unless my husband is in agreeance with me. I don't see myself going to a different church without him. But I don't want him to just say "Okay, then we'll just stay where we're at"...without studying for himself, or like you said: waiting me out. By the same token, I don't want to attempt to "lead" my husband spiritually or otherwise either, because that is not Biblical. I'm in a very strange place...only God truly knows and understands.

In the meanwhile...I thank God for his goodness and mercy. I have so much to be thankful for.

[Sam]

That would really be a difficult situation.

Your husband is licensed by the UPC. As his wife you want to support him in his ministry. You want to be used by the Lord in ministry. You are involved in a local church. Your social, family, and religious contacts/network are all involved in "church."

Now you realize that much of the doctrine and practice of the church and promoted by the organization is not Scriptural. How can you be true to yourself, your conscience, and to the Lord in this situation? Can you just "go along to get along?" Can you continue to preach, practice, promote unscriptural teachings just because "this is what our church believes"? Can a minister fulfill his calling by parroting the party line and ignoring his conscience and the Word of God?

How long before someone speaks up and declares that the emperor has on no clothes?

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by shag

That advice is worth a whole lot more than 2 cents!

Ditto