Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > The Newsroom > Political Talk
Facebook

Notices

Political Talk Political News


Search For Similiar Threads Using Key Words & Phrases
illegal alien, immigrant, immigration, stop, unfair

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04-14-2010, 11:35 AM
MissBrattified's Avatar
MissBrattified MissBrattified is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Atkinson View Post
I agree, besides, I think the opening story presents an inaccurate scenario. I don't see Jose Illegal making $15.00 an hour. Maybe picking fruit for $3.00 an hour.

People who hire undocumented workers do so because they are easily exploitable, which means they will pay them the absolute minimum they can get away with.

I also don't think "free" services for undocumented laborers are as accessible as the anecdote implies.
Exactly.

This type of propoganda is about making "illegal aliens" out to be some massive bad guy, so then we can be excused to treat them however horribly we like.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone


"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-14-2010, 11:43 AM
MissBrattified's Avatar
MissBrattified MissBrattified is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esther View Post
Illegal is illegal. Which means you are breaking the law. So if they will break the this law, what makes anyone think they will not break other laws?

Tell me what other nation would allow illegal immigrants into their country?
Illegal is illegal, Esther. How many of us go over the speed limit? If someone will break a speeding law, what makes me think they won't break other laws?

You know very well that coming to this country to try to find a job to feed a family is not the same kind of crime as holding up a bank. It may not be kosher, but it's understandable, just like we're understanding of breaking speed limit laws when we're in a hurry to get somewhere.

As for other nations--since when are we modeling ourselves after other nations? Oddly enough, when it comes to socialized healthcare, we don't want to be like other nations--we want to retain our American ideals. So on this issue, we're going to look around and see what everyone else is doing? No, we need to examine our principles, morals, and even scripture (yes, Christians should reference scripture to determine their politics), and determine what is the RIGHT thing to do.

Again, I am FOR regulations that make the border more secure. I'm also for sending anyone who has a criminal background back to where they came from. In the meantime, we have incalculable numbers of illegal immigrants already IN the country who need to be dealt with, and in a humane way that reflects American compassion and ideals.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone


"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-14-2010, 11:51 AM
MissBrattified's Avatar
MissBrattified MissBrattified is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog View Post
There are a number of issues involved in making them legal.

1. It does nothing to prevent a new wave of illegal imigrants
2. It rewards those potenial immigrants who don't follow the immigration rules by allowing them to become legal citizens before the potential immigrants who are trying to follow the rules.
I'm talking about making them follow the same process once we find out who they are, instead of shipping them out of the country. Hey--we found you--you're not here legally--so now you're going to study U.S. History, learn English, and take a test to become a citizen. Then you'll get a SS# and pay taxes on your earnings like the rest of us! (Probably not, since it's doubtful most have earnings above poverty level.)

Quote:
3. No one is sure of what making them legal will have on their hireability. If they can't be hired then the government will be paying for them to live here.
4. No one is sure of what making them legal will have on the the hireability and payscale of current citizens that work in the job markets the current illegals will be seeking employment in.

Do you really think its worth the risk?
I really don't see the risks. Affecting hireability is a risk? What should be done is that illegal immigrants shouldn't be allowed to access government funding until they have become citizens and have been issued a valid SS#. That way the government isn't paying for people just to live here, but rewards people for becoming legal and working here.

This would improve hiring conditions for American workers, because it removes the ability of employers to hire multiple workers sharing a single SS# or pay low wages under the table instead of being required to pay a fair wage.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone


"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:01 PM
Monterrey Monterrey is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: North of the Rio Grande
Posts: 2,794
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Yous folks are funny!

They don't seal the border cause they don't want to seal the borders. Period.

The illegals are here cause they want them here to have low paying labor.

All your opinions make no difference in the plans. They are going to run immigration reform down your throat like health care, nothing you can do to stop it.

Get your wallets out, part with the cash, and smile!
__________________
WHO IS BREXIT AND IS HE A TRINITARIAN?- James LeDeay 10/30/16


Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:06 PM
MissBrattified's Avatar
MissBrattified MissBrattified is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monterrey View Post
Yous folks are funny!

They don't seal the border cause they don't want to seal the borders. Period.

The illegals are here cause they want them here to have low paying labor.

All your opinions make no difference in the plans. They are going to run immigration reform down your throat like health care, nothing you can do to stop it.

Get your wallets out, part with the cash, and smile!
Monterrey, you're right. And that's why people should quite begging lawmakers to send all the illegal aliens back home, or to use lethal force on the borders, and ask INSTEAD for legalization & ultimately taxation. (Which would level the hiring playing field somewhat.)

You're absolutely right--Congress is not going to send people home or put them in jail. So ask for better solutions that they might have to pay attention to because they're fairly reasonable.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone


"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:30 PM
*AQuietPlace*'s Avatar
*AQuietPlace* *AQuietPlace* is offline
Love God, Love Your Neighbor


 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,363
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified View Post
Monterrey, you're right. And that's why people should quite begging lawmakers to send all the illegal aliens back home, or to use lethal force on the borders, and ask INSTEAD for legalization & ultimately taxation. (Which would level the hiring playing field somewhat.)

They can legalize the ones that are here, but what are they going to do about the ones that keep coming and coming and coming?
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:33 PM
John Atkinson John Atkinson is offline
*sigh*


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 1,998
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
Seal the border.
With what? It's a beeg border.
__________________

My Countdown Counting down to: End of the World
It's all over, fat lady done sang...

Last edited by John Atkinson; 04-14-2010 at 12:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:51 PM
*AQuietPlace*'s Avatar
*AQuietPlace* *AQuietPlace* is offline
Love God, Love Your Neighbor


 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,363
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
How would God have had Israel treat their strangers?
Regardless of how we individually think it should be handled on a political level, on a personal level we should always love them and treat them with the respect and kindness all humans deserve.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:56 PM
MissBrattified's Avatar
MissBrattified MissBrattified is offline
Administrator


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace* View Post
They can legalize the ones that are here, but what are they going to do about the ones that keep coming and coming and coming?
AQP, I don't have it all figured out. I think this has been more on my mind lately since we've been working with the Burmese people--although I've always felt a more compassionate approach was in order.

I just know that we are more inclined to mistreat people when we can distance ourselves from them or give them a clinical label. I've met racists who HATE black people, but they've never had any real personal interaction with black people. Chances are, if they had, they would view them more humanely, even if they retained some prejudices. As Christians, our first obligation is to look at these people as children of God--not as a scourge on our country. Sadly, it seems that many Americans often tend to view other Americans as children of God, and somewhat dehumanize anyone else.

I saw a hateful fb post the other day by a woman I know quite well, ranting and raving about people being forced to learn English before they come into this country. I have the privilege of teaching two Burmese children in my class on Wednesday nights, and although their English isn't perfect, it's pretty good. The older girl not only speaks English, but she speaks some Spanish in addition to her native language, and is able to passably read and translate a third dialect. How many of us could do that? I took two years of Spanish and I can hardly remember any of it! And yet many Americans act like these people are somehow inferior because they stumble over their words.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone


"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:02 PM
DAII DAII is offline
Freedom@apostolicidentity .com


 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,597
Re: Illegal Alien Thread

1. "Joe Legal" works in construction, has a Social Security Number, and makes $25.00 per hour with payroll taxes deducted.... "Jose Illegal" also works in construction, has "NO" Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Response: The email begins with the fallacy that illegal aliens are being paid off the books. According to the 2005 Economic Report of the President, more than “half of undocumented immigrants are believed to be working ‘on the books,’ so they contribute to the tax rolls but are ineligible for almost all Federal public assistance programs and most major joint Federal-state programs.” You can view the report here.

2. Joe Legal...$25.00 per hour x 40 hours $1000.00 per week, $52,000 per year Now take 30% away for state federal tax. Joe Legal now has $31,231.00. Jose Illegal...$15.00 per hour x 40 hours $600.00 per week, $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes... Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Response: It is simply false to say illegal aliens do not pay taxes. The IRS collects income tax from all aliens- irrespective of their legal status- who earn income in the United States. Taxes are generally collected through payroll withholdings and submitted tax returns. Some aliens, including undocumented aliens, are not eligible to receive a social security number for work purposes. Nevertheless, if they work, they will accrue federal income tax liability under the IRS code. To facilitate compliance with income tax law, the IRS developed the ITIN. You can read more about ITINs here. As of June 2006, the IRS had issued more than 7 million ITINs. Read more here. The IRS states that the tax return filing compliance rate for ITIN holders is about 75% . Here at page 52. Illegal aliens also pay taxes through payroll withholding with false, fraudulent, or stolen Social Security Numbers. This money is kept by the government in a “suspense file” and not returned to the illegal alien. The Social Security Administration states that these files represented $56.1 billion in earnings and $7 billion in social security payroll taxes. See here:
http://www.ssa.gov/legislation/testimony_031004.html.



3. Joe Legal pays Medical and Dental Insurance with limited coverage $1000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal now has $19,231.00. Jose Illegal has full Medical and Dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Response: Ostensibly, the author of this email is referencing Medi-Cal. According to its official government website, “Medi-Cal is California's Medicaid program. This is a public health insurance program which provides needed health care services for low-income individuals including families with children, seniors, persons with disabilities, foster care, pregnant women, and low income people with specific diseases such as tuberculosis, breast cancer or HIV/AIDS. Medi-Cal is financed equally by the State and federal government.” Eligibility for this program is based upon income. According to the guidance letter for the California Department of Human Services all aliens (legal or otherwise) must go through a verification process and only aliens lawfully residing in California may receive full benefits. Illegal aliens can only obtain emergency service and some child delivery services. Interestingly, it is quite possible that neither Joe nor Jose could qualify for Medi-Cal because of their income.

4. Joe Legal makes too much money is not eligible for Food Stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays for food. $1,000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal now has $ 7,231.00. Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for Food Stamps and Welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.


Response: Illegal immigrants are not eligible for federal entitlement welfare programs like Food Stamps. Indeed, even legal immigrants are barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years by the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, Pub. L. No. 104-193, 110 Stat. 2105 (Aug. 22, 1996) (codified as 8 USC §§1601 et seq.).



5. Joe Legal pays rent. $1,000.00 per month [$12,000.00 per year]. Joe Legal is now in the hole minus (-) $4,769.00. Jose Illegal receives a $500 per month Federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays rent. $500.00 per month (section 8 housing). $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $25,200.00.


Response: Unfortunately, this bears repeating. Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Federal welfare benefits like Section 8.

6. Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work. Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family (and eat out!).

Response: This is an unsupported allegation and is simply made up by the author of this email.


7. Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored breakfast & lunch, and they also qualify to be "bused to school" at tax payer expense.


Response: According to the USDA Eligibility Manual for School Meals, these types of school lunches are available for children that are: 1) members of a household that gets welfare; 2) enrolled in Head Start because of low income; 3) homeless, 4) migrants; or 5) runaways. We know nothing about Jose’s children given the fact pattern. Assuming however, they were born in the United States, they are U.S. Citizens and, provided they meet the guidelines, they are eligible for such programs. But according to the fact pattern given, neither Joe nor Jose would be eligible for free or reduced school lunches under the latest guidelines. Also, since this fact pattern is in California, it is very likely that any bus services are going to be sharply curtailed because of budget cuts.

8. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children have to find a way to get to school and go home after school as, "latch-key kids" with no adult supervision.

Response: The voters of California approved all types of after-school programs for all children.



9. Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same Police and Fire Services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.


Response: This is false. Joe and Jose paid for these local services through their property, sales, and income taxes. Also, the fact pattern tells us that both Jose and Joe are renters (See No. 5), thus their landlord factored in property taxes into their rent.


10. Jose Illegal can send most of his money back home to build a new home for retirement, and have money to buy a new truck (and still have Medi-Cal benefits while living in a foreign country; until someone turns him in to authorities....if they ever find out!!) Joe will be lucky if he has any money for retirement, a new vehicle, medical/dental benefits, or a place to live.


Response: According to the Pew Hispanic Center, 21% of unauthorized aliens in the United States are poor. Thus, it does not appear that while Jose is working construction and supporting a wife and two kids that he is building a “retirement home.” Also, as noted above Jose Illegal would not be eligible for full Medi-Cal benefits.

11. I have done the math, all you have to do is to look at it yourself. Don't hire illegal aliens.....Don't vote for any politician that supports illegal aliens.....And most important of all, write your politicians and let them know how you feel.


Response: It is unlawful to hire someone who is not authorized to work in the United States and it is important to let your elected representatives know how you feel. But please, form your opinions on truth and facts and not on deliberate distortions and false emails.


12. PS: You forgot, Jose illegal's wife claims "single, no head of Household" and collects additional benefits that Joe legal's wife cannot claim. No wonder our country is in trouble!! Think about it!


Response: The fact pattern begins to fall apart with its own distortions. First it claims that Jose does not pay taxes (No. 2), then it claims that “Jose illegal’s [sic] wife” files taxes as “single, no head of Household.” There is no such category. According to the IRS, there are five filing statuses: 1) single, 2) married filing jointly, 3) married filing separately, 4) Head of household; and 5) Qualifying widow(er) with Dependant Child. The Head of Household status usually grants a lower tax rate and higher standard deduction than the single or married filing separately status. Jose’s wife could file as Head of Household- or Joe’s wife for that matter- if they were: 1) unmarried or considered unmarried on the last day of the year; 2) paid more than half the cost of keeping up a home for the year; and a 3) “qualifying person” lived with them. If she met the eligibility, then she is lawfully claiming the status. If not, then she would be filing a fraudulent tax return and committing a crime.


Please keep separating the "wheat from the chaff" and consider your sources of information as you form your opinions about immigration issues.

http://isaac-project.blogspot.com/20...e-legal-v.html
__________________
VISIT US @ WWW.THE316.COM

Last edited by DAII; 04-14-2010 at 01:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I heard that Haney is an illegal alien Praxeas Fellowship Hall 8 08-19-2009 12:51 PM
Should Fireworks be illegal everywhere? Praxeas Fellowship Hall 21 07-05-2008 01:06 AM
The UPC Needs an Alien Invasion Praxeas Fellowship Hall 15 06-24-2008 04:24 PM
Alien caught on film!!!! StMark Fellowship Hall 12 05-31-2008 02:44 PM
Alien from outer space? True Believer Fellowship Hall 102 07-20-2007 10:31 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by jfrog
- by Salome
- by Amanah

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.