just in need of some different opinions and advice - Page 3

Truthseeker · #21 02-10-2010, 05:04 PM

"Wives, submit to you husbands in eveything"

RandyWayne · #22 02-10-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

"Wives, submit to you husbands in eveything"

When I hear about these situations (and am not saying it is happening here, although it could very well be the case), it seems like it is more about "Wives, submit to your pastor".

StillStanding · #23 02-10-2010, 08:08 PM

You may reach a point where the pain and consequence of staying is greater than the pain and consequence of leaving. Only you and your wife can take this inventory and weigh things out. Nobody else's opinion really matters. This is why decisions like this should only come with much prayer and family discussion. Good luck!

jfrog · #24 02-10-2010, 10:33 PM

I'm not married, but I remember very vividly the course of thoughts and feelings that led to my departure from my old church. If your path is anything like the one I went down then your church is going to become a very miserable place for you very quickly. I hope it doesn't but it really sounds like it's already begun.

My advice is to focus on the good of your church instead of the bad for as long as you can. You have other considerations like your wife so you can't just up and leave when you want. You gotta stay there for a while longer so you might as well make the best of it.

192281 · #25 02-11-2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacey

Can I ask something?

If you do choose to find and attend another church that is less rigid with "standards" (seems that's what I'm reading you're looking for?) and then your wife begins to give up all her semblances of any holiness standards that she was formerly used to.......are you absolutely sure that you are going to be okay with that?

It will happen. She will look at all the "new" styles of the new church and may resist at first, but she will give in eventually. You may like the change, but then again, you may be very disappointed in the long run.

I've seen many instances as I'm sure others have. Some were glad of the changes, others lived to regret them.

My advice is to do what most have said and be upfront with your pastor and then sincerely pray and fast about it all before you decide anything.

Praying for you and your wife.

I understand what you are saying and I honestlydont know. I mean my wife has already cut her hair and she wears a bit of makeup and I dont mind. Im not sure if she would change anything else though but if she did I would be ok with it as long as it was in moderation and she stayed modest. I dont think she would be going to hell if she didnt hold every Standard the church has placed. I would just want her always to be modest and I dont worry one second about her not being modest.

crakjak · #26 02-11-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 192281

Hello All.
Im know it’s funny that Im coming to a Forum to get advice. Believe me I have already had counsel with a few elders of my church and also a mentor of mine. Im just coming to get some opinions from people who do not personally know me and have no bias.

I have been in the UPC for about 10 years and have had a great 10 years. I feel my church has taught me many amazing things. In the last 3 years I have questioned a lot of the standards that are required in order to be a member or in leadership of the church and some things many of my church family consider to be heaven/hell issues.

I have studied scripture for the past two years and have prayed and fasted over the questions I have had and know exactly where I stand on what we as UPC consider "Holiness Standards". I respect those who have personal convictions about hair, makeup, and pants, short, beards...and whatever else you can think of but I dont see them as heaven or hell issues. I didnt come to this out of rebellion or anger..As a MAN the standards really dont apply as much to me so there isn’t much for me to get rebellious about. : )

I started questioning things because I just couldn’t see it in scripture and I couldn’t imagine asking my future wife(now married) or daughters (if I ever have them) to do these things. My problem is that I attend a UPC church and I am in leadership so I feel it’s important to do as my church ask, However, I dont really want to represent what they require anymore. I dont want to ask visitors to come and tell them there is no need to change what they wear but then in 4 months they want to sing my pastor tells them NO because they are wearing pants(women) or has a beard (man). I also knwo we say let them get it for themselves but I also am aware (because I was there) that if a change hasnt taken place in a few months we start to wonder if they even got the HG. Im tired of people praying people to salvation just because they see cut hair. I feel like a hypocrite asking people to hold up to certain standards but then a law that was written one line down we completely ignore...It’s hard for me to thigns like:

Wearing pants to bed and to the gym but we say its a sin so dont put them on to go to nordstroms...are you serious!!! SIN IS SIN..in the house or in the public.

So the question:
My wife and I both completely agree and are on the same level but she doesn’t want to leave because it’s what she knows and has always done. She is scared her family will be angry and she is scared to leave tradition. Like I told her even if we leave she can 100% hold every "holiness standard" she always has but this will give us the opportunity to be honest with people and up front with what we believe and it correlate with our pastor. We are at a crossroads..I want to look for a different church and she doesn’t due to tradition. As a man and husband what do I do? I have stayed for a year and want to make my wife happy but it’s hard on me. If she said I 100% think these are heaven/hell issues then I might even respect us staying there a bit more but if the church preaches what we dont believe then I dont understand...

Anyone been here before that can give some unbiased advice.

Thanks.

19,

You are in a difficult position, I suggest your wife would have difficulty in leaving where you are, even to go to another church that believes exactly like the one you are in. The community of the present location is a comfort zone, and the prospects of going elsewhere is the scary unknown.

The choice, since you both are at the same place in what you believe, is to stay and be miserable, waiting until it is unbearable and the departure is more painful. Or you can make a mature decision that you are going to explore other paths that the Lord is leading you, this takes time and should be made together, with both you and your wife agreeing. These choices assumes that you can no longer fit in the current culture with all your heart, seems that you stated that this is the case.

You may miss what God is calling you to do and to be if you stay. However, take your time be sure you are in right relationship with the Lord, don't allow others responses to your decision to cause you to strike back at them. Remain friends if they will allow it, if not remain friendly, especially with family and close friends. Show by your attitude and your love that you are not rebelling, and the you are together on your decisions. They will adjust, and usually respect your decisions if you remain friendly and approachable. If you become angry and strike back at those that say hurtful things, it just proves that your are rebellious in their own minds.

After 25 years, we are in good relationship with our families that are still in the UPC and or similar churches. It was very difficult at first, when we heard that folks were saying that we were backslidden. But because my wife and I were together they soon learned that they were very wrong.

Sister Alvear · #27 02-11-2010, 12:27 PM

I am praying for you all...

pastorrick1959 · #28 02-11-2010, 05:15 PM

getting closer to worldliness is never getting closer to god . the trend will continue from what i have seen in the past ,till nothing is wrong as long as we say we love the lord .

i understand you dont agree with every standard they hold ,,,,but have got to have some ,,our flesh wants to get out of control ,,i gave up things yra ago i dont consider wrong ,, but i felt my denial to myself would bring me closer to god ....it has and i aint sorry .
many in this day are wanting to live like hell and go to heaven ,,wont work that way .not saying that is you ,,,, but there are those out there that are ./...

RandyWayne · #29 02-11-2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

getting closer to worldliness is never getting closer to god . the trend will continue from what i have seen in the past ,till nothing is wrong as long as we say we love the lord .

i understand you dont agree with every standard they hold ,,,,but have got to have some ,,our flesh wants to get out of control ,,i gave up things yra ago i dont consider wrong ,, but i felt my denial to myself would bring me closer to god ....it has and i aint sorry .
many in this day are wanting to live like hell and go to heaven ,,wont work that way .not saying that is you ,,,, but there are those out there that are ./...

So.... The converse of "getting closer to the world" via way of loosening traditional standards would be "getting closer to the Lord" by finding the most conservative, strict church you can! In fact, if you are not already going to said church, you SHOULD leave you current one and GO there lest you flirt with worldliness!

Gimme a break! That is NOT making things right!

The Lemon · #30 02-12-2010, 08:35 AM

The leadership part of this situation is serious on a number of levels. If you feel called by the Lord to do anything in the way of leadership, then there can be serious emotional and spiritual ramifications to a decision like this. If you stay, I can see the part of the hypocrisy, and while you will be able to use your talents, you will also feel uncomfortable and maybe even feel like a liar on some levels. At the same time, finding something "new" is equally as challenging, and the truth is there will at some point be a real pull to just abandon the "call" altogether.

Of course your marriage is the most important thing, and really is your first "ministry". No body can give you the answer, and I'm sure you know that. What is important is preserving your integrity and continuing to build your family. You will recieve alot of advice here, but the best thing I can offer is my prayers....I have been where you are..only in reverse - it is me that has wanted to stay out of fear, rejection, ect. - whereas my my wife would not have the issues with leaving that I would.

Above all else...we must be saved.

Praying for you!