Disagreements With the Nicene Creed?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Trinitarian math just kills me!

1+1+1=1

I believe in one, and one, and one!

Read it Senor Anglin!

There are three 1's which make 3!

At least that is the way we count in Mexico!

Uno, Dos, Tres!

Uno, y uno, y uno es tres!


M.

A Trinitarian might say say 1x1x1=1. lol

[Arphaxad]

[QUOTE=Gods_Chosen_85;899910]

"The definition of the trinity as i am sure we all know cause we debate it so much is that there are three separate but co-equal persons coexisting and acting as one God! In the trinitarian corner we have Papa God, Jehovah Jr, and being that the third person in the trinity is a spirit we shall call him.. Casper the Holy Ghost!"

Yeah, that's the way to get your point across, saying stupid things like that.
Too bad that if someone actually said that in church there would be the AMENers and mockers.
I'm not a trinitarian, but c'mon, do we have to use dumbness to promote oneness?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

"The definition of the trinity as i am sure we all know cause we debate it so much is that there are three separate but co-equal persons coexisting and acting as one God! In the trinitarian corner we have Papa God, Jehovah Jr, and being that the third person in the trinity is a spirit we shall call him.. Casper the Holy Ghost!"

Yeah, that's the way to get your point across, saying stupid things like that.
Too bad that if someone actually said that in church there would be the AMENers and mockers.
I'm not a trinitarian, but c'mon, do we have to use dumbness to promote oneness?

I'd like to mention that there are several different variations of the "Trinity" doctrine. Some hold that the persons are literal "persons"... others tend to believe that these are personas that are eternally found in the one God, through which he manifests himself and is revealed.

[Arphaxad]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'd like to mention that there are several different variations of the "Trinity" doctrine. Some hold that the persons are literal "persons"... others tend to believe that these are personas that are eternally found in the one God, through which he manifests himself and is revealed.

uh, I was referring to the papa god/jehovah jr/ HG Casper as being stupid statements, I am certain that no trinitarian explains their doctrine like that.
The point is that ridiculing another persons belief is not going to make for serious discussion/debate. I mean it's like someone saying " These oneness folk believe Jesus is His own dad,hahaha".

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

uh, I was referring to the papa god/jehovah jr/ HG Casper as being stupid statements, I am certain that no trinitarian explains their doctrine like that.
The point is that ridiculing another persons belief is not going to make for serious discussion/debate. I mean it's like someone saying " These oneness folk believe Jesus is His own dad,hahaha".

Oneness folks don't believe that Jesus is His own Father?
or that He is Father and Son in one person?
or that He is Father and Son in two persons but in one person?

[Gods_Chosen_85]

[QUOTE=Arphaxad;900965]

Originally Posted by Aquila

uh, I was referring to the papa god/jehovah jr/ HG Casper as being stupid statements, I am certain that no trinitarian explains their doctrine like that.
The point is that ridiculing another persons belief is not going to make for serious discussion/debate. I mean it's like someone saying " These oneness folk believe Jesus is His own dad,hahaha".

Yes, i was a bit exaggerated in the wording but only to point out the absurdity of trinitarian doctrine.. yeah the casper thing was a bit much but bassically Trinitarians claim that God the Father sent Jehovah Jr (Jesus) as a second person in a triune Godhead to die for our sins, and that the Holy Ghost (who or what ever they say He is) guides us and comforts us!

Its also a sad fact when trinitarians cant even agree on what the definition of the trinity is where as oneness believers all have the same common understanding of the Doctrine of the Deity of God a.k.a. Jesus Christ!

But putting the witty sarcasm aside from my last post... there was enough ample evidence presented to give validity to the oneness doctrine... I dont even call it doctrine because its more than just doctrine its the Word of God and no amount of decietful twisting of scripture can change the truth of Gods Word... and that there has been, is, and always will be One and not a trinity or triune Council of three persons co equal co existing as One!

Of course i dont believe most Trinies decieve on purpose, they just dont have a true understanding and teach only what they are taught..

You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free... Truth alone is not enough to set anyone free.. Truth is there is One and He died and rose again for our sins but people are still dyin lost.. its only when you come to a true knowledge and knowing of the truth that truth will liberate you!

[Godsdrummer]

[QUOTE=Gods_Chosen_85;901098]

Originally Posted by Arphaxad

Its also a sad fact when trinitarians cant even agree on what the definition of the trinity is where as oneness believers all have the same common understanding of the Doctrine of the Deity of God a.k.a. Jesus Christ!

And Oneness don't have their various different ways of understanding and believing the onesness?

Of course i dont believe most Trinies decieve on purpose, they just dont have a true understanding and teach only what they are taught..

Today most onesness are the same they teach what they have been taught hence oneness has their false doctrines too.

You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free... Truth alone is not enough to set anyone free.. Truth is there is One and He died and rose again for our sins but people are still dyin lost.. its only when you come to a true knowledge and knowing of the truth that truth will liberate you!

Understanding the God head and anything else in the word comes from personal study after one has a relationship with God. This is true knowledge of the truth, not some man made passed on knowledge. And truth does set you free!!! Jesus said I am truth, when we have a personal walk with God (Jesus) we know the truth and it does set us free.

[Arphaxad]

"If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31b-32 (NKJV)

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by EA

THE NICENE CREED

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds;

Disagree

God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made

Not sure I know what this is supposed to mean.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

I disagree that The Son pre-existed AS the Son of God in heaven and came down from heaven AS the Son

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

The language here is that the Holy Spirit is another person from the FAther and Son, being Oneness I disagree

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

I don't believe baptism remits or forgives sins

[Gods_Chosen_85]

[QUOTE=Godsdrummer;901218]

Originally Posted by Gods_Chosen_85

Understanding the God head and anything else in the word comes from personal study after one has a relationship with God. This is true knowledge of the truth, not some man made passed on knowledge. And truth does set you free!!! Jesus said I am truth, when we have a personal walk with God (Jesus) we know the truth and it does set us free.

Understanding the Godhead is one of the most important aspects of bible doctrine. You cant have a full meaningful relationship with someone you dont know. Likewise you cant have the full benefits from your relationship with God if you dont have a understanding of who He is!



"If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." John 8:31b-32 (NKJV)

Its only when you know the truth(Jesus Christ) that the truth can truely set you free. This is speaking of a spiritual freedom found in a relationship with Jesus Christ... Jesus is still the truth but those that never accept truth never become fully free from spiritual bondage.

Many people find truth and accept it to a point; and since it disagrees with them they discard it.. but thier discarding doesnt change the fact that its truth. Many trinitarian pentecostals have come to the knowledge of the infilling of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues but they ignore the absolutity of the Oneness of God. Therefore they have only recieved truth in part. God would give them a full revelation but through ignorance of understanding they brush this vital truth off as heresy and try to validate thier stance just because they recieved the holy ghost!

and no matter how you try to explain it... One God in three distinct seperate persons coexisting and coequal with one another is 3 Gods. Its like saying that the city council is made up of 3 persons who co exist on the same board and are co equal in power... yet they are one city council!

You cant honestly believe in a trinity and say you believe there is one God!

When you have an open relationship with The Truth... You see that He alone is God and He gives glory to no other nor His praise to graven images. You see that in the beginning was the Word and the Word WAS God and the Word became flesh (Jesus) that in the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth and by Him (Jesus) was all things created... You see that God manifested HIMSELF in human form, not some second being with Him.. but Himself...


1 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version)

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

It didnt say Jehovah Jr was manifested in flesh but God himself... lets look at more scriptures we all know!!

John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Once again scripture points to Father God who is The Word being made flesh! Who was the flesh? Jesus Christ, therefore if Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh and the Word is God and it was God who manifested Himself in flesh... common sense says the Nicene Council got it wrong!

Exodus 3:13-15

13And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Remind me again about John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

lets examine one more set of scriptures just for the fun of it...

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

John 1

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Ephesians 3:9

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Zechariah 12:1
The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.



So its clear in the Old Testament that Jehovah God created the heavens and the earth, and yet in the new testament it states all things were created by Jesus Christ. So if Jehovah God is the Creator and everything was created by Jesus Christ, that makes Jesus Christ the Creator and Jehovah God!

okay so there is so much more I could put but we be here all night but I leave you with this thought! Trinitarians say that Papa God and Holy Ghost are two separate persons and both are spirits! But take note of the following scriptures!

Ephesians 4:4-6

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So obviously if scripture states that there is only one Spirit who is God and Father of All then there cant be a separate person in the Godhead who is also a spirit! Cause 1 person +1 person =2 people... hmmm yep and scripture states there is only one...

okay so i close for real this time

Isaiah 9:6 (King James Version)

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus Christ in this prophecy is call the The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father... yet we just read in Ephesians that there is One God and Father of us all!! Yet if the trinity is correct( it isn't ) that would make us have two Gods and two fathers, on top of having the two spirits we talked about earlier... hmmm

or we can just assume that scripture is infallible so that would mean that there is only One God who manifested himself in the flesh and sent His own spirit to live in us as born again believers!