Why do folks have a silly notion about being UPC only if licenced?

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Coop, are you aware that there are some of the churches that are in the UPCI that are UPCI affiliated? In case you did not know that it only means that reguardless of what the Pastor does the district and general boards can remove, select pastors for this assembly. There are alot out there that are not affiliated to the organization. Those can do whatever. But the Pastor may be asked to leave the organization it he does something out of bylaws.

The main thing is that in those unaffiliated ones the pastors act as if they are so they are tougher on the standards and such. IMO. I have been a few different UPCI churches over the past years, from state to state. Boils down to another way for the pastor and the organization to have a grip on the saints. The crazy thing is if the Pastor does what both boards want then that Pastor is pretty much set in place for a long time, unless he chooses to leave.

.

Been there did that and seen it too many times.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Ha! But, God has a rather strong thought against those who would constantly attack the standards of righteousness established through His Word.

How can you fault someone that does not see that somethings are essential to follow. They do not see it in the word. What verses are used to back up the standards at times are pulled way, way out of context. That is what is bad at times.

You could also have the tables turned on you too. Galations 5 talks about freedom that God gave. If you put yokes on the people that God does not require then you are in the wrong there. And God has rather strong thoughts against that too, don't you think?

Also, I kind of think you are off base with you statment of "the standards of righteousness." Standards are a good thing if you feel convicted of them. However, they do not make anyone righteous. Infact, in makes the estute themselves higher than they ought to be. Remember Romans 12:3,
Because of the privilege and authority God has given me, I give each of you this warning: Don’t think you are better than you really are. Be honest in your evaluation of yourselves, measuring yourselves by the faith God has given us.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Rrford, I am going by what a UPCI pastor with a UPCI affiliated church told me. So the egg is not on my face. I was trying to shed light on it.

It might be best then to state that you are repeating what you told and not offering it as fact. Not trying to be offensive and I apologize for being forthright.

It is frustrating to some of us that so many ministers do not read nor understand the Manual but pontificate about what it says. The minister who told you what they did is incorrect.

This has been addressed many times throughout the various incarnations of this forum, but here goes...

Growing up in the 70's and 80's in the UPC, if you were to ask any member of the church if they were UPC, they would have said, "Yes!"... regardless of whether they were saint or aristocracy... oops, I mean minister.

There have been many attempts to explain on these forums that this is only a "ministerial fellowship" but two things seem to disagree with that assessment:

1. The name itself, United Pentecostal Church, implies that it is a church body.

2. The fact that members of affiliated churches are considered non-voting members

It may be true by definition that it is a ministerial affiliation, but public perception, including by those people who are members of UPC churches seems to differ with this.

This is mainly brought up when someone asks the question of whether pastors are under subjection to their District officials, and they pull out pages and pages of reasons why they are not... the first of which being that it is only a ministerial affiliation.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by rrford

It might be best then to state that you are repeating what you told and not offering it as fact. Not trying to be offensive and I apologize for being forthright.

It is frustrating to some of us that so many ministers do not read nor understand the Manual but pontificate about what it says. The minister who told you what they did is incorrect.

I can tell you from personal experience that what I said some churches practice no matter what the Manual says. That may not be the way it should be but sometime it ends up that way. Doesn't someone before getting a licsense in the UPCI have to read the Manual?

Personally I think the standards are used by some people as a control factor. i.e. don't wear shorts, but on my cruise I will. Stuff like that gets me. I tell people that I am not convicted of all the standards, but I am not living a hellish life. But if God convicts one about them then they need to follow that. I would follow them if I were convicted. There are things I do not do that some that have the dress code do. So everyone is at different levels of revelation I guess you can say.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

This has been addressed many times throughout the various incarnations of this forum, but here goes...

Growing up in the 70's and 80's in the UPC, if you were to ask any member of the church if they were UPC, they would have said, "Yes!"... regardless of whether they were saint or aristocracy... oops, I mean minister.

There have been many attempts to explain on these forums that this is only a "ministerial fellowship" but two things seem to disagree with that assessment:

1. The name itself, United Pentecostal Church, implies that it is a church body.

2. The fact that members of affiliated churches are considered non-voting members

It may be true by definition that it is a ministerial affiliation, but public perception, including by those people who are members of UPC churches seems to differ with this.

This is mainly brought up when someone asks the question of whether pastors are under subjection to their District officials, and they pull out pages and pages of reasons why they are not... the first of which being that it is only a ministerial affiliation.

I would say the average member who Attends a UPC church would tell you they are UPC. If they are incorrect who misled them????????? So I think your argument is bonifide.

[Glenda B]

It is a very miserable and unhappy person, who is not in the will of God.

[Old Paths]

If you not are a licenced minister of the UPCI, but consider yourself a "member" of the UPCI by local church membership, try going to a sectional, district or General Conf. and....
















































VOTING.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

This has been addressed many times throughout the various incarnations of this forum, but here goes...

Growing up in the 70's and 80's in the UPC, if you were to ask any member of the church if they were UPC, they would have said, "Yes!"... regardless of whether they were saint or aristocracy... oops, I mean minister.

There have been many attempts to explain on these forums that this is only a "ministerial fellowship" but two things seem to disagree with that assessment:

1. The name itself, United Pentecostal Church, implies that it is a church body.

2. The fact that members of affiliated churches are considered non-voting members

It may be true by definition that it is a ministerial affiliation, but public perception, including by those people who are members of UPC churches seems to differ with this.

This is mainly brought up when someone asks the question of whether pastors are under subjection to their District officials, and they pull out pages and pages of reasons why they are not... the first of which being that it is only a ministerial affiliation.

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I can tell you from personal experience that what I said some churches practice no matter what the Manual says. That may not be the way it should be but sometime it ends up that way. Doesn't someone before getting a licsense in the UPCI have to read the Manual?

Personally I think the standards are used by some people as a control factor. i.e. don't wear shorts, but on my cruise I will. Stuff like that gets me. I tell people that I am not convicted of all the standards, but I am not living a hellish life. But if God convicts one about them then they need to follow that. I would follow them if I were convicted. There are things I do not do that some that have the dress code do. So everyone is at different levels of revelation I guess you can say.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I would say the average member who Attends a UPC church would tell you they are UPC. If they are incorrect who misled them????????? So I think your argument is bonifide.

YA'LL are right on target

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

My what a godly spirit Cooper! Is this how you would react if Jesus were to tell you something to do, and you did not do it? Man, you are really going downhill fast, are you not?

And yours is the UPCI approved attitude...........