I don't mean to be offensive and I feel I have forgiven and moved on. Still, I have family in the UPC and that keeps me passionate about all this. I have noticed that the more I am away from the movement I find that my spirit is completely different. When you are outside looking in things seems to make so much more sense.
I will try to keep my posting as factual as possible.
One does not have to be on the outside looking in for their spirit to be different, but if that was the only way for you to grow so be it. Personal experiences are subjective
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Monkeyman, I agree completely. I also take your advice about checking my heart as well. What saddens me is that to me there actually appear to be people hoping for the demise of the org. That is particularly disheartening to me because for all it's flaws, I don't know of any other group doing more to spread the Apostolic message worldwide. I'm not saying that there isn't one out there...I just don't know of one.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Monkeyman, I agree completely. I also take your advice about checking my heart as well. What saddens me is that to me there actually appear to be people hoping for the demise of the org. That is particularly disheartening to me because for all it's flaws, I don't know of any other group doing more to spread the Apostolic message worldwide. I'm not saying that there isn't one out there...I just don't know of one.
How do you define bashing? M already posted he would not define it or cite examples. Is "bashing" talking about; magic hair, control, false doctrine associated with baptism, man-made rules, imposed holiness standards being salvic, etc?
I agree with your post M, and it's not just UPC bashing, it's the bashing of apostolic doctrine such as Jesus Name baptism, and the Holy Ghost initially evidenced with speaking in other tongues. If you believe like a Baptist and not a Pentecostal why would you even be on this forum?
I don't understand why we can't question certain beliefs and the reasons why a certain belief is damaging to the body of Christ. If I think that an overemphasis on speaking in tongues and believing that Holy Ghost baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues is damaging to the faith of many people then why not put forth that opinion.
This is an example of a covert or passive aggressive form of taking a shot at a church.
Reminds me of preaching against gossip. Then at prayer meeting Matilda prays loudly that Leroy will stop drinkin' and chasing that home breaking waitress Sally.
"I have forgiven" is a nifty way to bring up something from the past.
I am going to borrow that one.
That isn't taking a shot. I have been UPC for 27 years I think I have some knowledge about the movement. I don't hate the people of the UPC. You never see me bashing ultracons or anything like that. I have always tried to demonstrate why I feel that certain things are wrong and why a certain belief is damaging.
If you're getting shot at from both the right and the left, you must be in the middle! One word: DUCK!
Ever hear the saying, that if you stand up barefoot with one foot on a hot griddle and the other on a block of dry ice, the two temperature extremes do NOT cancel each other out or provide for a pleasant experience.
We had the conservatives too, they would tell their point and leave it at that, we will always have a few knuckleheads on the ultra con side who are mean spirited, but they usually have been gentleman. I'm just seeing a trend here and I hope it stops
I know quite a few conservatives (here and other boards) who are NICE people and who's posts I enjoy reading even though we may disagree on a few things.
The real UC kooks on the other hand are what make these boards a regular riot sometimes!
Sometimes however a mob mentality rises up and even though I may be in 100% agreement with them on an issue I sit back and think "OK people, calm down now. Your spirit is getting ugly....".
(And I may have been guilty of this a few times myself.)
One does not have to be on the outside looking in for their spirit to be different, but if that was the only way for you to grow so be it. Personal experiences are subjective
Right, there are many, maybe even a majority of the UPC members that believe very differently than the hard line view but still love the organization.
Back in the day when I first joined 2 forums ago, there were always opposite points of view. Both sides brought intelligent, witty, and sometimes deep thoughts and it was very interesting...in the past few months, things have changed.
I still see good points made by both sides, but I have to tell you, in almost every thread concerning the UPC, I am reading some very condescending, vile, and bitter posts. I don't think one has to agree with my org's decison, and or edicts. I can even appreciate a different point of view...but...some, actually, many posts I have read have surprised me with the anger behind them. Some of the members back in the day had been hurt by an organization too, and some were even still angry, but they posted with humility, love, and a Christ-like attitude....I miss those days. Now I am wincing before I go into a thread because I don't know what I will read...again.
Make your points...but check your heart
Peace out...
Hey Monk,
I naturally wondered if I just might be one you're referring to. I obviously take a 180 degree view of things from the UPC way.
But I thought I'd just offer this...Today is my 7th day on this forum and I'm keeping count of something. I've been told I'm going to hell 13 times. Believe me, my good friend there's a LOT of bashing going on but I have never come within a universe of telling anyone they're unsaved. So yeah, there's bashing but it's coming FROM the UPC as much, if not more, than toward it.
And I've been wondering...would you happen to be a bass player that once did things the Goodine way?
__________________ Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? Will God? No! HE IS THE ONE who has given us right standing with himself. Who then will condemn us? Will Christ Jesus? No, for HE IS THE ONE who died for us and was raised to life for us and is sitting at the place of highest honor next to God, pleading for us. (Romans 8:33-34)
"The greatest enemy to the movement of Jesus Christ is Christianity". –Erwin McManus
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