Oneness and Trinitarian Unity?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

You know Elder I have been told that too by some trinitarians. However, I have been told by more trinitarians that Jesus is God. But, the only disinct difference is that most of the Trinnies do not believe Jesus is the name of God. They believe God is the name. Obviously this is a title, but that is how some of them seem to say.

I tell them that they are right if they are referring to a distinct title. My name is Justin, I am Delaney's father. That is how I explain it to them, as many other oneness people do. If you really get down to the end of it they explain the Godhead very similar that we do. The major difference is they used the word "persons" and we use words like "offices," "manifestations." It is like we are both looking at a quarter. We are seeing the heads side and they are seeing the tails side. We are trying to describe what we are seeing by looking at our side and they are doing the same thing. We are looking at the same "quarter."

Nearly every doctrinal statement of any Trinitarian group I have read clearly explains Their One God is in three distrinct persons thus NOT the God of the OT nor of the Apostles but of Rome who birthed it.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by OGIA

JTULLOCK, I have no problem with saying that trinitarians of the truest sense (that Jesus Christ is the 2nd person of the Godhead) do NOT serve the same Jesus Christ that I do. It is no different than me saying that Muslims serve a different God than I do.

The two Jesuses are just not the same. If they are not the same, then they are different.

Now, we might believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God together and believe in Him in that understanding, but we would still not worship Him together as the only God, the Father incarnate.

I think that is what Bro. Price is saying.

I see what you are trying to say, but it is not correct theology. Obviously, trinitarians are not in right theology either, but the say it is a different Jesus altogether is ubsurd. There is only on Jesus in the Bible. If a trinnie see Jesus as second in the Godhead then they are wrong, in a sense. The Bible says in Jesus lives all the fullness of the Godhead. They see the same Jesus, but the see Him in a different roll. There is but one Jesus. Muslims see the same Jesus, but they see Him differently, ie prophet. If we as Christians are reading the Bible we are seeing the same Jesus, period. Even though we are seeing Him from a different point of view.

We see Him as God, but they see Him as a roll of God.

[Whole Hearted]

True oneness Jesus name people can NEVER be in unity with trinitarians.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I see what you are trying to say, but it is not correct theology. Obviously, trinitarians are not in right theology either, but the say it is a different Jesus altogether is ubsurd. There is only on Jesus in the Bible. If a trinnie see Jesus as second in the Godhead then they are wrong, in a sense. The Bible says in Jesus lives all the fullness of the Godhead. They see the same Jesus, but the see Him in a different roll. There is but one Jesus. Muslims see the same Jesus, but they see Him differently, ie prophet. If we as Christians are reading the Bible we are seeing the same Jesus, period. Even though we are seeing Him from a different point of view.

I certainly don't go around telling those trinitarians that I witness to that they worship a different Jesus than I do, but I still disagree with you. To not know God in the fullness of His revelation as the Lord Jesus Christ is to not worship Him as I do. I have yet to get one trinitarian, of the probably dozen or so I've asked, to answer me as to whether they worship Jesus Christ as the ONE and ONLY God of eternity. They run from this answer like scalded dogs. If they can't answer that in the affirmative, they are worshipping "another Jesus".

We see Him as God, but they see Him as a roll of God.

Well, He did claim to be the Bread of Life.



Just kidding, brother. I know that's probably a typo.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by OGIA

I certainly don't go around telling those trinitarians that I witness to that they worship a different Jesus than I do, but I still disagree with you. To not know God in the fullness of His revelation as the Lord Jesus Christ is to not worship Him as I do. I have yet to get one trinitarian, of the probably dozen or so I've asked, to answer me as to whether they worship Jesus Christ as the ONE and ONLY God of eternity. They run from this answer like scalded dogs. If they can't answer that in the affirmative, they are worshipping "another Jesus".


Well, He did claim to be the Bread of Life.



Just kidding, brother. I know that's probably a typo.

Very funny...good pun!

Look, if because they have not seen the full revelation of Jesus does not mean that they are worshipping a different Jesus. They worship differently the same Jesus. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. If you believe that they worship a different Jesus then you should tell them, because why with hold, part of "truth?" By "truth" I mean there being a different Jesus. You have yet to show sufficent evidence that there is such a "other jesus." Yet, I have shown you different verses and selection from scritpure that shows my points.

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Very funny...good pun!

Look, if because they have not seen the full revelation of Jesus does not mean that they are worshipping a different Jesus. They worship differently the same Jesus. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. If you believe that they worship a different Jesus then you should tell them, because why with hold, part of "truth?" By "truth" I mean there being a different Jesus. You have yet to show sufficent evidence that there is such a "other jesus." Yet, I have shown you different verses and selection from scritpure that shows my points.

Will anyone ever have a full revelation of Jesus while we're still here in this world?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Very funny...good pun!

Look, if because they have not seen the full revelation of Jesus does not mean that they are worshipping a different Jesus. They worship differently the same Jesus. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous. If you believe that they worship a different Jesus then you should tell them, because why with hold, part of "truth?" By "truth" I mean there being a different Jesus. You have yet to show sufficent evidence that there is such a "other jesus." Yet, I have shown you different verses and selection from scritpure that shows my points.

Amen.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Look, if because they have not seen the full revelation of Jesus does not mean that they are worshipping a different Jesus.

Do you believe the Jews worship the same God as you?

They worship differently the same Jesus.

They worship the same Son of God, maybe; and that's a BIG maybe.

They worship a Jesus that was an eternal person, coexisting with the Only True God, who was made flesh. I do not believe the Jesus I worship to be that. So, that is why I say that they do not worship the same Jesus as me.

If worship is not in spirit and in truth, is it accepted by the Father? Do you think they worship Him as the Father, who demands worship in spirit AND in truth?

To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

That's your opinion.

If you believe that they worship a different Jesus then you should tell them, because why with hold, part of "truth?" By "truth" I mean there being a different Jesus.

I have told some and will eventually tell all I witness to (or as many as I can) . I try to let the Holy Ghost determine the timing.

You have yet to show sufficent evidence that there is such a "other jesus." Yet, I have shown you different verses and selection from scritpure that shows my points.

I'm assuming you know the verses I am referring to when I do mention something scriptural.

Do you believe that a trinitarian can be saved by worshipping God the Father as any other than Jesus Christ?

[Felicity]

Well, it seems like whoever these people are worshiping - they call Him Jesus - is responding anyhow. Their prayers are answered and they're even being indwelt by the One on whose name they're calling!

[OGIA]

Well, it seems like whoever these people are worshiping - they call Him Jesus - is responding anyhow.

He did the same many times when He walked the earth and on the day of Pentecost and beyond, Felicity. It doesn't mean He wants them to stay that way, though.

Their prayers are answered and they're even being indwelt by the One on whose name they're calling!

Well, I don't know. I've had some deny that they are being indwelt by the Lord. In fact, to remain true to their belief, it is the 3rd person of the trinity indwelling them, not the Lord Jesus Christ.


Note: I've sort of assumed that this discussion is dealing with those who flat out deny the Oneness of God and who cling to the trinitarian belief, sometimes to the point of it being an issue of salvation.