Free will versus reality! - Page 3

StMark · #21 10-13-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

I am fully apostolic pentecostal... UPC (I guess that means some would argue the first part then).

Just because I am a little different in my beliefs doesn't mean the fundamentals aren't the same. I just think too many people shove off the science because it gets complicated when many get the boot too soon, like evolution and (conditioning).

I know this is off topic, but this definitely peeks my curiousity..
Does this mean you don't believe in the Book of Genesis,
The story of Eden ? and how do you explain the creation man?
you have to not fully believe in the infallability of scriptures to
believe in evolution. If you've already explained it and don't feel
like doing so again, just direct me to a thread where you've
already exausted the topic

nahkoe · #22 10-13-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmy

Oh, there you go again, being logical!

Well you know..it's my greatest weakness.

nahkoe · #23 10-13-2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark

I know this is off topic, but this definitely peeks my curiousity..
Does this mean you don't believe in the Book of Genesis,
The story of Eden ? and how do you explain the creation man?
you have to not fully believe in the infallability of scriptures to
believe in evolution. If you've already explained it and don't feel
like doing so again, just direct me to a thread where you've
already exausted the topic

I believe in the creation story in Genesis, I believe in a literal Garden of Eden, I believe in a very, very hands on literal creation of man by God.

I definitely believe in micro-evolution (really, how can a person not...?) and the theory of macro-evolution is intriguing. I'm not sure science has it all quite right, but I do think the evidence is quite compelling on some points.

I believe that the Bible never states how long creation took. The word used is the word for a time. It's used for a day, so maybe it literally means that. But it's also used for any period of time. So maybe it doesn't.

nahkoe · #24 10-13-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark

I know this is off topic, but this definitely peeks my curiousity..
Does this mean you don't believe in the Book of Genesis,
The story of Eden ? and how do you explain the creation man?
you have to not fully believe in the infallability of scriptures to
believe in evolution. If you've already explained it and don't feel
like doing so again, just direct me to a thread where you've
already exausted the topic

Can you explain what you mean by the bolded please? I don't see how the two are connected in any way.

clgustaveson · #25 10-13-2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark

I know this is off topic, but this definitely peeks my curiousity..
Does this mean you don't believe in the Book of Genesis,
The story of Eden ? and how do you explain the creation man?
you have to not fully believe in the infallability of scriptures to
believe in evolution. If you've already explained it and don't feel
like doing so again, just direct me to a thread where you've
already exausted the topic

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=15865

SlowFade · #26 10-13-2008, 08:04 PM

I believe it all depends on perspective. Both are true. From man's perspective we have free will and make choices and live with the results of those choices. However, from God's all knowing perspective God already knew all choices made, permitted all things to take place, and knows the end from the beginning.

Sept5SavedTeen · #27 10-13-2008, 09:23 PM

First, about creationism vs. evolution... One day equaling millions or billions of years brings death before sin, because you MUST have some organisms dying before Adam's formation and his and Eve's sin in the Garden.

Also, as for psychological conditioning, well, that's not really a theological question your asking about free will. I mean, I can't be a Ulmitrite, because I don't know what an Ulmitrite is, I've never met one, they don't have a website, and they are only located in New Zealand as a small group of 75 people (but of course I don't know that). So my free will doesn't tell me to be or not to be an Ulmitrite, I just don't know either way... maybe they have more Truth than apostolics, I don't know- I highly doubt it. Also, as for my own free will, I am bound in certain areas physical that I can do nothing about, due to my stature of just shy of 5'4"- all my free will is not going to make me a basketball player like Michael Jordan. If that's where your wanting to go with free will, I think it's pretty simple. We are where we are, with the backgrounds we have, the biological makeup that makes us what we are, and well that's just it...

-Bro. Alex

nahkoe · #28 10-13-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

First, about creationism vs. evolution... One day equaling millions or billions of years brings death before sin, because you MUST have some organisms dying before Adam's formation and his and Eve's sin in the Garden.

Interesting idea. And I'm going to sound ignorant here...but I haven't studied this lately. Is there scriptural evidence that there was no death before the fall? My mind is vaguely remembering there might be something, but not remembering enough to go looking for it.

And, how would a day being longer than a day necessarily equal death happening before the fall? I'm not sure I follow..

clgustaveson · #29 10-13-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

First, about creationism vs. evolution... One day equaling millions or billions of years brings death before sin, because you MUST have some organisms dying before Adam's formation and his and Eve's sin in the Garden.

Also, as for psychological conditioning, well, that's not really a theological question your asking about free will. I mean, I can't be a Ulmitrite, because I don't know what an Ulmitrite is, I've never met one, they don't have a website, and they are only located in New Zealand as a small group of 75 people (but of course I don't know that). So my free will doesn't tell me to be or not to be an Ulmitrite, I just don't know either way... maybe they have more Truth than apostolics, I don't know- I highly doubt it. Also, as for my own free will, I am bound in certain areas physical that I can do nothing about, due to my stature of just shy of 5'4"- all my free will is not going to make me a basketball player like Michael Jordan. If that's where your wanting to go with free will, I think it's pretty simple. We are where we are, with the backgrounds we have, the biological makeup that makes us what we are, and well that's just it...

-Bro. Alex

Psychological conditioning not a theological question... you lost me when you started talking about evolution instead of free will...

nahkoe · #30 10-13-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

And where does your own mind play?

This thread was not meant to be a Calvinism versus Arminianism. I think there are varying views on this site of the nature God plays, so for those that are Arminian, aside from the autonomy from the will of God, how much free will do you think you have from psychological conditioning?

This question is obviously not directed at Calvinists, so if you are please try to refrain from distracting from the essence of the question.

You want this to be the original question, but I don't follow it at all once you start throwing in big words.

Seriously, state your question w/o the doctrinal or theological stuff in there. I don't feel like looking it all up to figure out if I can even answer this.

Is the bolded what your actual question is? And, if so, can you clarify please?