This Bill Ayers stuff is John McCain's last stand.

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

If people can't see this, then I am shocked. This interview was in 2001. I have voice clips from 2007 where Ayers and his wife are still hating on America. My goodness.

But is there any solid proof that Barack Obama agrees with Ayer's actions or words? Does Obama accept counsel and advice from him?

Again, I believe the disconnect with this story is that other than attending a party at his house, and serving on various Boards(chosen by other people) there isn't much proof that Obama and Ayer's are friends, much less anyone Barack Obama agrees with or accepts ideas and counsel from.

[rgcraig]

Mike did you watch the Hannity America Special last night?

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Mike did you watch the Hannity America Special last night?

No way. Sean Hannity isn't worth my time. I don't let people like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Allan Colmbes and Keith Olbermann shape my opinion. They have agendas and it's not a good idea to try to get truth from people with agenda's, IMO. Agenda's and truth never mix.

Now, I am interested in reading newspaper accounts or other journalist's accounts of Barack Obama agreeing with and supporting Ayer's actions and ideas.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

Still more the point, why are voters supposed to believe that because he served on boards with him and attended a party at his house, that he condones his criminal acts of the 60's?

Mike, please...how much have you really looked into this issue?
Lets at least get the facts straight...

1...He didn't merely "attend a party at his house". Ayers hosted a fundraiser for Obama's senate campaign in his house. There is a huge difference.

2...Ayers has never expressed remorse for his crimes. As a matter of fact, he's on record as said having wished he could have committed more of those violent acts while he was in the Weather Underground. The man is totally unrepentant, and outspokenly so, something that's widely known in Chicago political circles.

I don't regret setting bombs. ... I feel we didn't do enough.
~ William Ayers, N.Y. Times interview, Sept. 11, 2001

3... The issue is not that Obama necessarily condones his acts. It's a question of judgment. (Remember Obama has said repeatedly that although his experience is limited, he exercises superior judgment. )Why would a man who supposedly loves his country and wants to become our president NOT repudiate an unrepentant America-hating terrorist like Ayers?

(And please dont tell me he didnt know what Ayers was about, or his unrepentant hard-left views even after his Weather Underground days. To say that would make me think you also believe he sat in there Jeremiah Wrights church for almost 20 years but never heard any of those America-bashing sermons by Wright either.)

4... To dismissively say that Obama served on boards with him is to gloss over the truth here. Despite media attempts to whitewash the issue, the fact is there is strong evidence they worked closely together over a period of time. If McCain had a similar relationship with an unrepentant Abortion-clinic bomber, would the media be so quickly dismissive of the relationship? Would you? Needless to say, I highly doubt it.

For further reading into the issue, be my guest:

(News Article: Obama worked closely with terrorist Bill Ayers
Records show collaboration on funding leftists despite claim he's just 'a guy' in neighborhood )
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76022

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

No way. Sean Hannity isn't worth my time. I don't let people like Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Allan Colmbes and Keith Olbermann shape my opinion. They have agendas and it's not a good idea to try to get truth from people with agenda's, IMO. Agenda's and truth never mix.

Now, I am interested in reading newspaper accounts or other journalist's accounts of Barack Obama agreeing with and supporting Ayer's actions and ideas.

Well, you do realize those journalist have an agenda too.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

But is there any solid proof that Barack Obama agrees with Ayer's actions or words? Does Obama accept counsel and advice from him?

Again, I believe the disconnect with this story is that other than attending a party at his house, and serving on various Boards(chosen by other people) there isn't much proof that Obama and Ayer's are friends, much less anyone Barack Obama agrees with or accepts ideas and counsel from.

Just the mere fact that you would even say this tells me you haven't really looked into this issue much.

Then again, maybe deep down, you don't even want to, because you might not like what you see.

Feel free to look into it further. I'm done here. At the end of the day, Mike, nobody can convince you of something you don't want to see.

[tstew]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Mike, please...how much have you really looked into this issue?
Lets at least get the facts straight...

1...He didn't merely "attend a party at his house". Ayers hosted a fundraiser for Obama's senate campaign in his house. There is a huge difference.

2...Ayers has never expressed remorse for his crimes. As a matter of fact, he's on record as said having wished he could have committed more of those violent acts while he was in the Weather Underground. The man is totally unrepentant, and outspokenly so, something that's widely known in Chicago political circles.

I don't regret setting bombs. ... I feel we didn't do enough.
~ William Ayers, N.Y. Times interview, Sept. 11, 2001

3... The issue is not that Obama necessarily condones his acts. It's a question of judgment. (Remember Obama has said repeatedly that although his experience is limited, he exercises superior judgment. )Why would a man who supposedly loves his country and wants to become our president NOT repudiate an unrepentant America-hating terrorist like Ayers?

(And please dont tell me he didnt know what Ayers was about, or his unrepentant hard-left views even after his Weather Underground days. To say that would make me think you also believe he sat in there Jeremiah Wrights church for almost 20 years but never heard any of those America-bashing sermons by Wright either.)

4... To dismissively say that Obama served on boards with him is to gloss over the truth here. Despite media attempts to whitewash the issue, the fact is there is strong evidence they worked closely together over a period of time. If McCain had a similar relationship with an unrepentant Abortion-clinic bomber, would the media be so quickly dismissive of the relationship? Would you? Needless to say, I highly doubt it.

For further reading into the issue, be my guest:

(News Article: Obama worked closely with terrorist Bill Ayers
Records show collaboration on funding leftists despite claim he's just 'a guy' in neighborhood )
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76022

TR, are you talking about the dinner where the incumbent announced her retirement and endorsed Obama as her successor? If that is the one, I would have to point out that he would not have been the one to select that venue or really be in the position to refuse that opportunity. Please correct me if it was another situation.
I think that in all actuality for better or worse, Ayers has been accepted into Chicago politics and culture as a major player and I am not sure that their paths would have crossed otherwise.
Now, the Wright connection was just plain stupid on his part, but I guess Wright was a happening pastor in some circles.

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Mike, please...how much have you really looked into this issue?
Lets at least get the facts straight...

1...He didn't merely "attend a party at his house". Ayers hosted a fundraiser for Obama's senate campaign in his house. There is a huge difference.

2...Ayers has never expressed remorse for his crimes. As a matter of fact, he's on record as said having wished he could have committed more of those violent acts while he was in the Weather Underground. The man is totally unrepentant, and outspokenly so, something that's widely known in Chicago political circles.

I don't regret setting bombs. ... I feel we didn't do enough.
~ William Ayers, N.Y. Times interview, Sept. 11, 2001

3... The issue is not that Obama necessarily condones his acts. It's a question of judgment. (Remember Obama has said repeatedly that although his experience is limited, he exercises superior judgment. )Why would a man who supposedly loves his country and wants to become our president NOT repudiate an unrepentant America-hating terrorist like Ayers?

(And please dont tell me he didnt know what Ayers was about, or his unrepentant hard-left views even after his Weather Underground days. To say that would make me think you also believe he sat in there Jeremiah Wrights church for almost 20 years but never heard any of those America-bashing sermons by Wright either.)

4... To dismissively say that Obama served on boards with him is to gloss over the truth here. Despite media attempts to whitewash the issue, the fact is there is strong evidence they worked closely together over a period of time. If McCain had a similar relationship with an unrepentant Abortion-clinic bomber, would the media be so quickly dismissive of the relationship? Would you? Needless to say, I highly doubt it.

For further reading into the issue, be my guest:

(News Article: Obama worked closely with terrorist Bill Ayers
Records show collaboration on funding leftists despite claim he's just 'a guy' in neighborhood )
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76022

That last article you linked to is interesting. I'll freely admit that I haven't read a lot on the whole Bill Ayers connection. I'll read things that can be verified like the article you posted. Minutes of meetings and things like that can be documented and verified.

I am going to do some more reading on all of this.

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by tstew

TR, are you talking about the dinner where the incumbent announced her retirement and endorsed Obama as her successor? If that is the one, I would have to point out that he would not have been the one to select that venue or really be in the position to refuse that opportunity. Please correct me if it was another situation.
I think that in all actuality for better or worse, Ayers has been accepted into Chicago politics and culture as a major player and I am not sure that their paths would have crossed otherwise.
Now, the Wright connection was just plain stupid on his part, but I guess Wright was a happening pastor in some circles.

That's correct on the meeting. The party was thrown for state Senator Alice Palmer to announce her retirement. The party wasn't "for" Barack Obama.

He absolutely is accepted in Chicago. Mayor Daley put out a statement last week defending Ayers. I realize that Daley isn't a neutral observer in this election.

Michael Kinsley had a quote in Time magazine that I found interesting.

"If Obama's relationship with Ayers, however tangential, exposes Obama as a radical himself, or at least as a man with terrible judgment, he shares that radicalism or terrible judgment with a comically respectable list of Chicagoans and others — including Republicans and conservatives — who have embraced Ayers and Dohrn as good company, good citizens, even experts on children's issues."

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Just the mere fact that you would even say this tells me you haven't really looked into this issue much.

Then again, maybe deep down, you don't even want to, because you might not like what you see.

Feel free to look into it further. I'm done here. At the end of the day, Mike, nobody can convince you of something you don't want to see.

I'll have to ditto this post. I'm done.