Why don't some speak in tongues?

[SDG]

She's praying for you, DG ... you "lied" at age 19.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Ultimately you and I know that none of us can send anyone to hell. We will not be the One sitting on the judgement seat.

You put those who believe the new birth is the baptism of water and the baptism of the Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues between a rock and a hard place. If we say a believer will not see or enter the kingdom of God without being born again, then you will say we are acting as judges.

If we say we are not judges but simply declare what we believe to be the truth of the word of God ie, tongues is the visible and auditory sign that a believer has been filled with the Holy Spirit, but will not say if a believer does not speak in tongues they are going to hell, then you say we wriggle and squirm and are scared to come clean.


Seriously MOW, what do you expect? Either way you will find fault. So why bother.

Simply tell the truth about you believe and don't try to cloak it in the gobbeldegook of pentecostal phrases and cute sayings that I have heard for decades. That really shouldn't be so hard.

I have no problem stating what I believe and I don't have to cloak my beliefs in any manner whatsoever. I believe that a person is rapture ready at genuine repentance and if they have truly repented should be water baptized and receive the gift of the HG. Pretty simple to me. But then, that's simple me.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I am not MOW but I speak from a 1 stepper point of view. I think that 3 steppers can be too tough on people and be too judgmental and also can not stand for what you believe. When most 1 steppers speak we are sure of a persons salvation but usually we say that God is the final judge often times when some 3 steppers talk about it they can become damning to those that don't follow. I am not speaking of all 3 steppers and all 1 steppers, but a good amount of each of the parties do this. There is nothing wrong with standing for what one believes in but approaching it from the "I believe this is the biblical way of doing it" is different than "this is the what the bible says to do and all others are hell bound" see the difference in the terms? One is optimistic and the other is judgmental. That is how I see it.

Did you ever read the very very long thread MOW started awhile back?

JT, some folks will say 3 steppers are playing the judge not matter how they express their beliefs. So is it worth it to get into a discussion with someone who is baiting the other person to give a direct answer when they know they are will be damned if they do and damned if they don't?

Let's take this a step further, evangelicals say a believer is justified AT faith. That means they are saved before repentance. An evangelical would lay the same accusation at the feet of 1 steppers that 1 stepper lay at the feet of 3 steppers.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Might have helped ifyou had stayed a little longer?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Simply tell the truth about you believe and don't try to cloak it in the gobbeldegook of pentecostal phrases and cute sayings that I have heard for decades. That really shouldn't be so hard.

I have no problem stating what I believe and I don't have to cloak my beliefs in any manner whatsoever. I believe that a person is rapture ready at genuine repentance and if they have truly repented should be water baptized and receive the gift of the HG. Pretty simple to me. But then, that's simple me.

Well, that's just swell for you, MOW, but I don't believe it is scriptural. And by teaching genuine repentance makes one "rapture ready", some folks will not see the need to seek to be filled with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And if a believer does not have the Spirit of Christ in them, they are not part of the body of Christ...none of His nor are they born again.

The problem here is the question of when someone recieves the Spirit of Christ. You say at repentance, but you have no Biblical proof. I say someone can receive the Spirit anytime AFTER repentance with the sign of speaking in other tongues (this is not the gift of tongues). If you want to start a thread on "When does someone recieve the Spirit of Christ?", I'd be happy to take part in it.

I've stated what I believe many times and I don't cloak my beliefs either. I take it from your response that if I say what I believe you will not accuse me of playing the role of a judge, is that correct? I'm usually very straightforward in saying what I beleive. I don't try to circumvent stating my beliefs with sugar coating or gobblygook as you call it.

There is also this other accusation against 3 steppers going around that states we say that if don't speak in tongues you aren't saved. It implies that speaking in tongues saves us which is not what I believe at all. The emphasis is then on speaking in tongues and not on receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Another damned if you do and damned if you don't arguement that goes around in circles.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

She's praying for you, DG ... you "lied" at age 19.

I find that remark contemptible and reprehensible. Dan, you've sunk to a new low. You'll have to go underground soon.

I'm not praying for him because he lied. I can understand why he did what he did. I'm praying for something much deeper for him.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm not praying for him because he lied.

I find that remark contemptible and reprehensible. Dan, you've sunk to a new low. You'll have to go underground soon.

New low??? ... you are praying for him because he was spiritually abused, then? Which is it ...? That his faith doesn't falter because he was once surrounded by those who brand others as saved and not saved based on glossalalia?

Your suggestion that I will have to go underground soon and other recent remarks smack of more the elitism that you try to distance yourself of by your "Berean" approach ....

MOW is on target .... tell us the truth ... no spin ... like St. Matt and Epley do ... Just say it.

And the question still is WHY DON"T SOME SPEAK IN TONGUES.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I don't know what to say. I know what the Bible says but I don't want to go there in reply to you.

It's sad that there is so much pressure put upon seekers to speak in tongues that you felt compelled to tell others you had received the Spirit when you hadn't. I've heard others say the same thing but I'm glad you didn't turn away from God through all of this.

I will be praying for you.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

She's praying for you, DG ... you "lied" at age 19.

Mizpeh, you can pray for me anytime you want and I will accept it as I know your motives are pure and you have a sincere heart after God. Dan knows I need the prayer too.

I was actually 8 years old but I wasn't stupid. If the new birth was ACTS 2:38 then I could logically follow the conclusion on out to hellfire if I didn't speak in tongues. I have probably spoke in tongues at various times in my life so I am "safe" but I am almost positive that the night that I said I received the Holy Spirit I didn't really speak in tongues.

I do want everyone to speak in tongues and feel the awesome power of God but I am very concerned with the damage that can be done in a person's walk with God when they are taught that they have to achieve this elite moment in time when God decides they are repentant enough to receive his spirit. I have said before that it is like slot machine church. We go to the altar over and over and all of a sudden we get a blessing and we have our fix until the next random time God decides that we are worthy of his power. We then become addicts just hoping and praying that it will happen again and many go years before they get their fix. Never missing a church service because this might be the blow out service and they could have missed their time.

This goes against the very message that the Gospel is a gift from God and that our sins have been paid for by what Christ did for us. It also goes against much of orthodox Christianity that seems to state that we are born again by God and not because of our own ability. I am convinced that these improper teachings on the Gospel lead to much nervousness about the rapture and security of our salvation.

[Steve Epley]

My opinion is too much emphasis is placed on tongues. Everyone that recieves the Holy Ghost Baptism WILL speak in tongues.
I think there are only two reasons folks do not recieve the Holy Ghost.
1. unrepentant
2. lack of faith

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

New low??? ... you are praying for him because he was spiritually abused, then? Which is it ...? That his faith doesn't falter because he was once surrounded by those who brand others as saved and not saved based on glossalalia?

Your suggestion that I will have to go underground soon and other recent remarks smack of more the elitism that you try to distance yourself of by your "Berean" approach ....

MOW is on target .... tell us the truth ... no spin ... like St. Matt and Epley do ... Just say it.

My suggestion in saying that you will have to go underground is because you can't sink any lower than what you have by implying my intentions when I said I would pray for DG was to ask God for mercy because he lied when he was 19. You have no idea what my intentions were or what I am going to say to God. You immediately thought I was judging DG and implying evil intent in my heart. ie: she thinks he is lost, she thinks she is holier than everyone else, blah, blah, blah. To go any lower you will have to dig a hole and go underground.

If DG wants to know what I am praying about concerning him, he can pm me. I have not intention of telling you anything on this matter.

My other recent remarks? What about you're remark that I'm spreading a "new fangled" false doctrine and then you do not respond to the scriptural reasons why I believe the blood of Christ is applied when we are baptized? It appears to me that you like to sling mud on others without an honest inspection of what they believe. Yeah, I've lost respect for you.