A crisis pregnancy where life and death of the mother is an issue is a medical decision - not an abortion. If your wife was in a pregnancy crisis she would go to a hospital - not an abortion clinic.
Renda, you have to understand the complex logic here.
arguing a womans right to post conception birth control is a loser on every level. that means the Keith Oberman starter kits of the world are required to resort to the 2% argument.
2% of abortions happen when an otherwise happily pregnant woman comes face to face with her on mortality.
the 2% argument is designed to suspend logic and kick "feeling decision making" into high gear.
Its much too complex to be logical.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
He's right. It's not the government's job to force a woman to give birth in effort to some how punish her for her improper behaviors, wrong though they may be. Society, including Government, should reach out with programs, efforts, and initiatives to help her and encourage her to choose life and raise her children. She's made a mistake, and too many prolife people want to force her to give birth and abandon her by cutting her WIC, health insurance, etc.... just to make an example out of her.
of course obama is right! he was speaking! he will stop the seas from rising, and magically make your home more valuable and the moon will shine with gold dust! how could he be wrong????
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Obama just wants it to be legal. Yes, that means some women might abuse that choice. But what that means to me personally as a voter is that if my wife faces a crisis pregnancy where her health or life is in danger, that painful choice would be ours to make. Not the governments.
If anyone tells you that banning abortion or even putting restrictions on abortions will have a significant impact on abortion’s occurrence they’re stupid. Muslim countries in the Middle East and Catholic Countries in South America have had some of the strongest laws against abortion and their abortion rates were still sky high (based on maternal morbidity so actual numbers are even higher). In Westernized countries abortion’s legality has had virtually no impact on abortion rates. However, there are exceptions where social policies aimed at reducing abortion have been implemented. Countries such as Belgium have passed social policies that actually help women facing crisis pregnancies thereby helping and encouraging them to choose life. In addition a strong agenda teaching the benefits of both abstinence and the use of contraceptives for those who are active have also aided in the decrease of abortion’s occurrence. Today Belgium has the LOWEST abortion rate on earth….and please note that abortion is still legal in Belgium.
Banning abortion just sweeps it under the rug without any of us having to put money into solid programs and initiatives that will save lives. Most political conservatives oppose programs that would actually save lives because after all is said and done all they care about is their money.
Let us address the misinformation in this post.
1. Restrictions reduce abortion;
"Dur..ing the 1990s, the amount of state pro-life legislation that was passed increased substantially. Furthermore, the number of abortions performed dropped by around 18 percent during the 1990s."
Laurie D. Elam-Evans, Lilo T. Strauss, Joy Herndon, Wilda Y. Parker, Sara Whitehead, and Cynthia J. Berg, “Abortion Sur..veillance—United States, 1999,” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, Vol. 51 (November 29, 2002), pp. 1–28, at www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5109a1.htm (January 11, 2006). Calcula..tion by author.
Now watch close so you can learn to interpret data Chris;
"Among countries where abortion is legal without restriction as to reason, the highest abortion rate, 83 per 1,000, was reported for Vietnam and the lowest, seven per 1,000, for Belgium and the Netherlands."-
International Family Planning Perspectives, 1999, 25(Supplement):S30–S38
This lowest abortion rate is based upon the caveat that it is compared only among countries where it is legal without restriction, yet you compare it to all countries.
The facts Belgium is no where near the lowest in terms of pregnancies that end in abortion. notice all the countries below Belgium.
Belgium 2005 13.2 *
Greece 2003 13.1
Andorra 1995 13.0
Taiwan (ROC) 1999 13.0
Switzerland 2005 12.9
Azerbaijan 2006 12.3
Isle of Man 2006 12.1 *
Israel 2006 11.8
Puerto Rico 2005 11.7
Bahrain 2002 11.5 *
Kyrgyzstan 2006 11.0
Barbados 1995 10.3
Guyana 2005 10.1
Costa Rica 2005 10.0
Bermuda 1984 9.9
Tunisia 1996 9.6
South Africa 2005 9.2
Turks and Caicos Islands 2005 9.1
Tajikistan 2006 8.6
Uzbekistan 2006 7.5
Ireland 2006 7.3 *
Saint Helena 1990 7.1
Faeroe Islands 2006 5.8
Kosovo 2006 4.6
Bosnia and Herzegovina 2001 3.2
Austria 2000 3.0
Suriname 1994 3.0
India 2000 2.7
Gibraltar 2005 1.9 *
Malta 2006 1.4 *
Qatar 2005 1.3
Portugal 2005 0.8
Venezuela 1968 0.8
Poland 2006 0.09
Mexico 2005 0.07 *
Botswana 1984 0.04
Chile 1991 0.02
Panama 2000 0.02
I was reprimanded yesterday because I said "I can't believe a Christian would believe abortion is okay."
One of my young employees was hurt that I said that.
Demonstrative of the moral slide of todays youth. And the acceptance of a belief in individual "choice" as opposed to core morals and standards. The line of "choice" is swiggily. Women can kill the baby and that is her choice. "Choice" is being carried into the realm of gay marriage, and even "man/boy love." After all it is a "choice" and we are not supposed to judge. In a few years a Roe v Wade could come to the courts that says a 50 years old man can marry a 10 years old boy because it is their "right to privacy."
Demonstrative of the moral slide of todays youth. And the acceptance of a belief in individual "choice" as opposed to core morals and standards. The line of "choice" is swiggily. Women can kill the baby and that is her choice. "Choice" is being carried into the realm of gay marriage, and even "man/boy love." After all it is a "choice" and we are not supposed to judge. In a few years a Roe v Wade could come to the courts that says a 50 years old man can marry a 10 years old boy because it is their "right to privacy."
Absolutely, and this young lady is a Christian (COGIC). It was all about choice - no one tells her she can't pierce her ears or lip, so why should they be able to tell her she can't have an abortion.
She then went on to say how can we have corporal punishment, but want to outlaw abortion.
No logic at all.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
I was reprimanded yesterday because I said "I can't believe a Christian would believe abortion is okay."
One of my young employees was hurt that I said that.
I don’t know of any Christian who believes that, “abortion is okay”. I know a number of Christians who firmly believe that abortion is an issue that the government is incapable of dealing with by merely banning it. In fact, statistics show that banning abortion does little to prevent its occurrence. Consider the fact that there’s less abortion today than before Roe and its perfectly legal. When someone says something like, “I can’t believe a Christian would believe abortion is okay.” they’re distorting reality and calling into question another Christian’s faith. It demonstrates a narrow and uninformed opinion of the subject and yes…it can be highly offensive. The abortion issue has been used for decades now as a weapon to brow beat anyone who doesn’t vote Republican and frankly many Christians are starting to wake up to it. We’re not in support of abortion, but we can plainly see that abortion isn’t going to be banned in this country and that merely banning abortion would do little to save lives anyway. So it’s the wrong fight. We need to stand up for strong social policies that help women in crisis pregnancies and agendas that teach the benefits of abstinence and the use of contraceptives for those who are active.
Many Muslim nations have criminalized abortion and their abortion rates are still very high. Of course the religionist governments feel good because they’ve swept it all under the rug and don’t have to actually deal with it. But Westernized countries like Belgium have programs and efforts that have allowed them to achieve one of the lowest abortion rates on earth….and yes….abortion is still legal in Belgium. Eastern European countries discovered that when faced with high abortion rates (based on maternal morbidity) after legalizing the procedure and provided education the abortion rates dropped significantly. Legalizing it allowed them to closely monitor its actual occurrence and the reasons behind women having abortion. In Belgium this allowed the government to find out what measures might be necessary to help more women choose life.
So just because a Christian may side with “choice” or “pro-choice” politicians it doesn’t mean they don’t value life. It means they believe a more comprehensive approach is necessary beyond merely banning the procedure which is all conservatives propose we do. Pro-Life conservatives have accomplished next to nothing in the past 30 years. It’s time to take a new approach and address the abortion rate without focusing so much on abortions legality, which actually has little impact on abortion’s occurrence.
There’s a bigger picture out there than most realize. Think of it this way…there’s more than one way to skin a cat.
Maybe you should approach that person and apologize for what you said and allow them to share with you their thoughts on the matter. Odds are if they are a devout Christian who leans Democratic they simply think more is in order to address this issue than merely banning abortion. They might fear that banning abortion might cause a spike in abortion rates to pre-Roe numbers.
Abortion is an issue that isn’t going to go away. It’s here to stay. We have to look FORWARD to what policies we can enact that will help and encourage more women to choose life. Yep, we’re going to have to fund programs and save babies…that’s putting our money were our mouth is. But I assure you….it’s the conservatives that will fight you tooth and nail from trying to save lives. They only want it banned because they believe that once it’s banned it will magically go away.
abortion is murder and should not be tolerated, and the so called the life of the mother exception is much more rare than 2 percent, how about maybe 1 in 10,000, good grief, there is no reason as a rule to kill a child, obama supported abortions even in the illinois legislature, he is a fraud, dt
__________________
A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
abortion is murder and should not be tolerated, and the so called the life of the mother exception is much more rare than 2 percent, how about maybe 1 in 10,000, good grief, there is no reason as a rule to kill a child, obama supported abortions even in the illinois legislature, he is a fraud, dt
Abortion's legality does little to prevent it's occurrence. Muslim nations and heavily Catholic nations are prime examples. Their abortion rates are higher than ours. If it's murder....you'd think you'd want to save lives. Sadly, all you care about is what it looks like on paper.
Linear Mode
