God uses suffering to teach us to minister

[Bro-Larry]

To all of you who believe God is using suffering to teach His children.
Please answer me this one question:

"How much suffering have you used to teach your own children?"

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

God never intended for us to experience death , sickness or poverty. All these come from the devil. Adam and Eve made the choice which opened the door to "Pandora's Box" (TIC). So don't blame God like Job did.

Back in Job's day the devil had access to heaven so he was up there accusing men before God. Now, since Jesus did a number on him, he's been kicked out of heaven and he's down here on earth accusing God before men.

Don't believe the lie of the devil, that God is sending trouble your way to build you up and make you strong. It's the devil sending tribulation your way to destroy you. (Jn 10:10). Jesus came that you might enjoy the God kind of life: ZOE'

Whether you enjoy the ZOE' from God or the tribulation from the devil is your choice. If you choose to embrace suffering, at least it's good that you make the most of it and hold fast your faith in God.

Big Larry- I appreciate your comments in this thread. Its always good to see things from a different perspective. However, its not that I think God sends trouble to build us up or to make us stronger, but its that it is fact that we are made stronger by learning from the troubles that we have. We learn in the fiery furnances of life just as we learn from our mistakes. On of the truest verses in the Bible is Job 14:1 Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble. Troubles are a part of life, just as sickness and death are parts of life. They don't come from God, nor do they always come from the devil. Sometimes trouble comes through our own doing- sometimes through the actions of others. And sometimes, trouble just happens because... well... thats life.

Its interesting that you would refer to Job. No, his troubles didn't come from God- but God used Job's situation to help him see that he had, as all humans do, a character flaw. And, it was in the midst of trials that Job was able to finally see and correct that flaw. So, we too can learn from the problems of life just as Job did. I use a saying in dealing with the problems of life. "We can't have a top without a bottom, can't have a good without a bad". That is to say, if life was all good with no problems, then, we'd never know life is good. We have nothing to compare the "good" with. The Dottie Rambo song says it better than I can:

Life can't be all sunshine, or the flowers would die. The rivers, would be deserts , all barren and dry."

The Bible is full of men and women who learned, not from the "good" of life, but from the bad. Why did it take the children of Israel 40 years to traverse the wilderness when it was only an 11 day journey from Egypt to the border of the Promised Land? (Deu 1:2). Their journey was a learning process. They learned from their mistakes and learned from their troubles. Its not that God sends trouble our way to "teach" us, but He certainly can, and does, teach us a lesson from the troubles of life. I don't agree that tribulation is always the devil trying to destroy us. I believe tribulation is nothing more than a facet of life- its how we react to that tribulation that makes, or breaks, us. If I haven't learned anything from it...then... I failed the "test". To say, however, that tribulation is never used by God as a teaching tool is to discount much of the Bible. Is not tribulation a form of chastisement that God uses to correct His children, just as we use various means to correct behavior in our children? Doesn't the Bible tell us that tribulation works patience?

I don't care for trouble. Don't like it at all. But trouble is inevitable. However, if I have learned something from that trouble, then I have gained and not lost. Maybe that trouble teaches me something about myself just as Job's taught him something about himself (and taught him something about his "friends"). Though, in my POV, the entire story of Job was based on a series of lies, Job benefitted from his trials. He gained from them. He was a better man for it. And, whatever happens to us in this life, if we gain from it, if we benefit from it, then surely we can acknowledge that God used that trouble as a teaching tool.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

To all of you who believe God is using suffering to teach His children.
Please answer me this one question:

"How much suffering have you used to teach your own children?"

...and to answer this question: As much as it takes to get them to learn a lesson. Grounding, spanking, denying privileges, assigning "work". Posting a list of rules to follow, that includes no consequences for failure to comply makes the rules ineffective, wouldn't you agree?

But I think the point is being overlooked here. Its not God "sending" tribulation to teach us... is God teaching a lesson from the tribulations and troubles of life. Or stated more correctly, its US learning from our tribuations.

Good discussion- but, I think the point of my orginal post was lost somewhere. My original point was that had I not gone thru what I did with my wife, I wouldn't have known what to say or do to help the brother who recently lost his wife.

[OneAccord]

In re-reading through this thread, I think the mistaken assumption that tribulation equates punishment is being made, The two are not one in the same. In fact, one has little, if anything to do with the other.

Tribulation, troubles and problems are fact of this flawed life we are living. Just as sickness and death are a part of living, so are problems a fact of life.

Why did my wife have to get sick and die? I don't know. I don't blame the devil, and I certainly don't blame God. If I assess blame at all, it would be on life. Its just the way it is. I don't say tribulation, problems and troubles are punishment (though I certainly do believe God chastizes those He loves), but I do believe troubles come along and can help us to ferret out our shortcomings as in the case of Job. In fact, as one who believes the church will go through a part of the tribulation (but not the wrath of God, see how the two are separate?), I believe the purpose of the Tribulation period is to purge the church of its faults. But that opens up an entirely different discussion. That, IMO, is the the reason we weather the storms of life.

We go thru "tribulation" everytime we pull up to the gas pumps. With gas at a record high (approaching or exceeding 4.00 a gallon) and going higher, we feel we are going through tribulation. And, like the children of Israel ("Whats...manna again!?!, I'm sick of manna!"), we grumble. But... we learn. We learn to conserve gas- shorten our trips- we don't run to town quite as much. We don't take driving for granted as much as we use to. And maybe, we... or I should say I....maybe I will learn to stop grumbling so much. That is the purpose of trouble. To teach us not to grumble and complain- but to trust the Lord.

[Hoovie]

One thing for sure the world is in the palm of His hand. I want nothing that is outside His greater will.

[rgcraig]

One Accord,

What a beautiful thing!

[Falla39]

In rehearsing the wilderness journey with the children of Israel, Moses told them
why God had taken them down this path. (Deut. 8:2)

To humble them.
To prove them.
To see what was in their hearts (What was in their hearts came out their mouth,
grumbling and complaining. Never satisfied. Wanting to turn back.)
Whether they would keep his commandments or no.

We are also on a journey. The path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth
more and more unto the perfect day. The just shall live by his faith. Faith is not what
we see, but what we take hold of, and hang onto, UNTIL that which we do NOT see.
we DO see!

By faith I see, the road's last bending'
Angelic voices, sweetly blending.
O may I hear Him say "Well Done",
Earth's toil is ended, Welcome Home, My Son"!

Blessings,

Falla39

[ForeverBlessed]

Some might have already mentioned these scriptures... didn't read the whole thread. I will come back as I have time.

Many things we face in this life result in our flesh being crucified so that we become more like Jesus... It is when we learn to handle the things we face in this life with Grace that Jesus is reflected in our life.

Sufferings and afflictions are a part of this natural life and they are used to bend, mold and conform us to his image.


Phil 3:10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

2 Cor 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. 6And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. 7And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; 33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

So let me get this straight.

God is a child abuser. right?? He abuses His children, so they can help others to cope with the abuse, that He is using to help them, which will in turn help them to help someone else to cope with the abuseee......? What's wrong with this picture?

I believe I have suffered as much as anyone here, and it never once made me have a warm fuzzy feeling toward GOD. It instead made me mad at the devil, knowing he is the one causing it.

He is our heavenly father... I don't look at it as abuse.

I am not a child abuser, but you can bet your last dollar that I intentionally step back and let my kids make mistakes that I know they will suffer consequences of…. mainly because I know that they must learn. They will hurt, but they will learn. Pain causes us to learn, change so we don’t experience the same hurt again. Some have thicker skulls than others…. lots of pain finally brings about illumination. “Ahhh… I am not supposed to do that”.

I am not an abuser, but I have consistently whipped some backsides over the last 15 years… I am not a child abuser, but I have required my children to stand and face circumstances that I knew was going to hurt because it builds character.

If I was always there, building them up, making they believe they were perfect kids who could do no wrong, making things easy for them so they didn’t have to strive for the things in this life… I would be doing them a great disservice.

True parental guidance is showing unconditional love throughout every failure, every bruised ego… yeah, even sometimes I am the one inflicting the pain.

Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

Psalm 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

[Falla39]

Heb. 5:7,8,9

"Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications
with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and
and was heard in that he feared;

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them
that obeyed him."