What does cannot sin mean ? - Page 3

Joelel · #21 04-13-2008, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1Jn 3:1 See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
1Jn 3:5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
1Jn 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Right we can come to the place where we don't practice sin but this takes place when his seed (word) abides in us or we are born or regenerated by the word.God's word don't abide in us or we are not born or regenerated of the word if we practice sin.

Joelel · #22 04-13-2008, 02:41 AM

An other point to make here is,1Jn 3:6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

Bro-Larry · #23 04-13-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

You did good up to this point. You should have stopped here because your conclusion to this statement has no biblical basis

To hold to this explanation you would also have to believe in the once saved always saved doctrine since your born again spirit would be somehow sealed and unable to be penetrated by sin.

It would also render scriptures such as the following one as erroneous:

Heb 6:4-6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and {then} have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. (NAS)

Never say, "Never", my friend, because there is always another option.

Are you taking the unscriptural position, that after new birth a person never sins again? I think not.

An understanding of the fact that a person is composed of body, soul, and spirit, gives a plausable explaination to I Jn 3:9, and of how everyone does sin, in some fashion (maybe not the big sins), and yet on the other hand a born again person cannot sin. (in his spirit). Remember your spirit in the only part of you that has already been perfected. Your soul and body will be redeemed later.

As for your extrapolation of OSAS, let me say that there is also another option. While I believe you cannot lose your salvation, I do believe that you can fall away and be lost by voluntarily renouncing your salvation, if you meet the five qualifiers found in Heb 4:4-6

gloryseeker · #24 04-13-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

Are you taking the unscriptural position, that after new birth a person never sins again? I think not.

No, it is obvious that people can sin again after the new birth. Many real live examples of this throughout history.

Quote:

An understanding of the fact that a person is composed of body, soul, and spirit, gives a plausable explaination to I Jn 3:9

I totally agree that the three components of the human make up consists of Spirit, soul, and body, however your explanation of it does not agree with 1 Jn 3:9 unless you isolate this verse from the rest of the context of the passage that is written by John. Also, the main context of the scripture is love and not sin:

I Jn 3:1-11
1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and {such} we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

Context: Love of God. The reason the world does not know us is because we have become the children of God because of the love of God.

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is.

Context: Still following the pattern of the love of God as reflected in our being the children of God.

3 And everyone who has this hope {fixed} on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Context: Now we get to the meat of this. Everyone who has the hope of the Love of God that makes us the children of God purifies himself just as Jesus is pure.

The key here is your responsibility to live clean because of the love of God bestowed upon you. What John is setting us up for is the "cannot" sin is coming from a standpoint of one who understands what God has done for us will not allow himself to sin not that it is impossible to sin. Watch how he progresses.

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

Context: He who "practices." From this we know that we have the power to practice sin, but the context is that we are to purify ourselves by not practicing sin.

5 And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

Context: For God so loved the world He sent His only begotten Son and in His Son there is no sin. Therefore, purify yourself because if you practice sin you practice lawlessness.

6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

Context: It gets real interesting here because those who "abide" in Jesus does not sin. Why? Because He is pure and they understand the love that was bestowed upon them and they will not allow themselves to do those things that He has declared unclean.

A lot of people deceive themselves thinking they are "in Him" when in fact they are not because of the sin in there life. Narrow is the way that leads to life, but broad is the way to destruction.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

Context: Don't be deceived. If "you" want to be righteous you are going to have to live righteous.

8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Context: Those who practice sin is of the devil. This is where you made a BIG mistake talking about big sins and small sins... Sin is sin and it is of the devil. From the spiritual side of sin there is no difference between the adulterer and sister bucketmouth in the church. Sin is sin and it is of the devil.

9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Context: Those born of God do not practice sin because of the seed that is inside of them and they are not going to do anything to jeopardize that seed. The cannot, therefore is not the inability but the not allowing oneself to sin.

Jesus could have sinned, but He was not going to stain that which was pure. Therefore, He could have accurately said, "I cannot sin." Not from an inability but from an unwillingness.

10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Context: By what? By the purity of life. The children of God practice righteousness and the children of the devil practice sin.

11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; (NAS)

Context: It's all about love

Other scriptural references:

John 14:15
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. (KJV)

John 15:10
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (KJV)

I Jn 5:2
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. (KJV)

I Jn 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. (KJV)

II Jn 1:6
6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. (KJV)

Bro-Larry · #25 04-14-2008, 06:29 PM

Correction : Heb 6:4-6

Everyone believes what they want to believe.

Joelel · #26 04-14-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

No, it is obvious that people can sin again after the new birth. Many real live examples of this throughout history.

I totally agree that the three components of the human make up consists of Spirit, soul, and body, however your explanation of it does not agree with 1 Jn 3:9 unless you isolate this verse from the rest of the context of the passage that is written by John. Also, the main context of the scripture is love and not sin:

I Jn 3:1-11
1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and {such} we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.

Context: Love of God. The reason the world does not know us is because we have become the children of God because of the love of God.

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is.

Context: Still following the pattern of the love of God as reflected in our being the children of God.

3 And everyone who has this hope {fixed} on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Context: Now we get to the meat of this. Everyone who has the hope of the Love of God that makes us the children of God purifies himself just as Jesus is pure.

The key here is your responsibility to live clean because of the love of God bestowed upon you. What John is setting us up for is the "cannot" sin is coming from a standpoint of one who understands what God has done for us will not allow himself to sin not that it is impossible to sin. Watch how he progresses.

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

Context: He who "practices." From this we know that we have the power to practice sin, but the context is that we are to purify ourselves by not practicing sin.

5 And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

Context: For God so loved the world He sent His only begotten Son and in His Son there is no sin. Therefore, purify yourself because if you practice sin you practice lawlessness.

6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

Context: It gets real interesting here because those who "abide" in Jesus does not sin. Why? Because He is pure and they understand the love that was bestowed upon them and they will not allow themselves to do those things that He has declared unclean.

A lot of people deceive themselves thinking they are "in Him" when in fact they are not because of the sin in there life. Narrow is the way that leads to life, but broad is the way to destruction.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

Context: Don't be deceived. If "you" want to be righteous you are going to have to live righteous.

8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Context: Those who practice sin is of the devil. This is where you made a BIG mistake talking about big sins and small sins... Sin is sin and it is of the devil. From the spiritual side of sin there is no difference between the adulterer and sister bucketmouth in the church. Sin is sin and it is of the devil.

9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Context: Those born of God do not practice sin because of the seed that is inside of them and they are not going to do anything to jeopardize that seed. The cannot, therefore is not the inability but the not allowing oneself to sin.

Jesus could have sinned, but He was not going to stain that which was pure. Therefore, He could have accurately said, "I cannot sin." Not from an inability but from an unwillingness.

10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Context: By what? By the purity of life. The children of God practice righteousness and the children of the devil practice sin.

11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; (NAS)

Context: It's all about love

Other scriptural references:

John 14:15
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. (KJV)

John 15:10
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (KJV)

I Jn 5:2
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. (KJV)

I Jn 5:3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. (KJV)

II Jn 1:6
6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. (KJV)

There is a big differance in being born of the Spirit and being born of the seed or word.You can practice sin when your only born of the Spirit but you can't practice sin if your fully born of the word.

Neck · #27 04-14-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

What's this mean,a person who is born of God cannot sin because his seed remaineth in him ?

1John.3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

To me it has always been about true repentance.

You will not sin willfully after receiving the promise.

It is not an open door to sin and have it overlooked by watered down grace.

It you are truely born of God you will not be the minister who falls into sin.

gloryseeker · #28 04-14-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

There is a big differance in being born of the Spirit and being born of the seed or word.You can practice sin when your only born of the Spirit but you can't practice sin if your fully born of the word.

You are in error... the Word is Spirit:

John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God. (KJV)

John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (KJV)

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (KJV)

Joelel · #29 04-15-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

You are in error... the Word is Spirit:

John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God. (KJV)

John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (KJV)

John 6:63
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (KJV)

The words Jesus spoke is spirit,small s.Showing they are his words.God's word is his but his word is not Spirit,large S.The same as my words are mine but they are not my flesh.God's word is God because they are his words but his word is not Spirit.The word born means regenerated.When we are filled with his Spirit we are regenerated of the Spirit but not his of his word.We are regenerated by his word as we hear his word and obey it and are perfected or regenerated.

We are being perfected or regenerated or born or washed by the word.Eph.5:25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,(SEED)27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish

Peter told them here they have purified their souls by obeying the word.We obey the word after we are filled with the Spirit.The Spirit leads us into all truth and we purify our souls by obeying.

1 Peter 122: Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth(word) through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:23: Being born (regenerated)again, not of corruptible seed,(WORD) but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

gloryseeker · #30 04-15-2008, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joelel

The words Jesus spoke is spirit,small s.Showing they are his words.God's word is his but his word is not Spirit,large S.The same as my words are mine but they are not my flesh.God's word is God because they are his words but his word is not Spirit.The word born means regenerated.When we are filled with his Spirit we are regenerated of the Spirit but not his of his word.We are regenerated by his word as we hear his word and obey it and are perfected or regenerated.

We are being perfected or regenerated or born or washed by the word.Eph.5:25: Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;26: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,(SEED)27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish

Peter told them here they have purified their souls by obeying the word.We obey the word after we are filled with the Spirit.The Spirit leads us into all truth and we purify our souls by obeying.

1 Peter 122: Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth(word) through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:23: Being born (regenerated)again, not of corruptible seed,(WORD) but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Your explanation has done well to compartmentalize biblical truths from one another. This is the reason that the Bible speaks of those who are ever learning and never coming to the Knowledge of the truth.

Peter tells us (2 Peter 1:3) that all things have been given to us through the knowledge of Him who has called us. Jesus speaking to the disciples (I think Matt 14) asked who people said that He was. When Peter responded that He was "the Christ (anointed One/Messiah) the Son of the living God" Jesus responded that this came by revelation from the Father and that because of this revelation he was blessed (empowered to succeed). Jesus then said that upon this rock (the revelation of Who He is) would be built a church that the gates of hell could not prevail against.

Hosea prophesied that because of a lack of knowledge God's people are destroyed.

The reason that so many Christians are broke, sick, depressed, addicted, and just getting by is because, as you, they have no understanding of the Jesus, the Word, the Spirit, and the Father and how it all ties in together.