Bill Clinton Loses Temper, Lashes Out at Pro-Lifer

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by scotty

Since when was murder just a morale issue?

If you are moral, do you murder?

You bet it is a social problem.

Society needs God.

Yes, a social problem. Where do social problems begin?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

If you are moral, do you murder?


The act of murder expands and covers more than just morality. Alot of people I find to be immoral still would not commit murder.

Yes, a social problem. Where do social problems begin?

Lack of God, period.

[ChristopherHall]

Here’s an excerpt from a very good article about abortion….

The reasons women give for aborting are, for the most part, economic. The vast majority of women named interference with jobor school, or being unable to afford a baby, as a reason for choosing abortion. These reasons are far from trivial -- in fact, most women do not choose abortion for reasons of 'convenience', reguardless of popular opinion. Most women choose abortion because they feel they have no other option.
Our society punishes women for becoming mothers. A woman with a child has special needs -- needs that the educational and working worlds are unwilling to meet. Childcare is inadequate, and ridiculously expensive. Few jobs offer the sort of flexible scheduling that a new mother needs. The academic world makes few exceptions for a woman trying to be a student and a mother. For a woman working a job that barely pays the bills, a job that she knows she will loose if she must be continually taking time off to care for a child, a job that could never pay for daycare, what choice is there but abortion? For a college student halfway through her education, with thousands of dollars of debt from loans and no way to pay them back unless she finishes that education, and little chance of finishing that education as a mother -- is there really any 'choice' involved?
Clearly, in today's world, motherhood is simply not an option for some women. So, should a feminist support a woman's right to abortion?
Of course not.
To respond to society's blatant prejudice against mothers, especially single mothers, by giving women a way out of motherhood is to accept that prejudice. Abortion does not liberate women. It makes certain that society doesn't really ever have to adapt to women's needs. It means accepting that a woman cannot have a successful career, and care properly for her children. It means accepting that abortion isn't really a choice, for a woman on the verge of poverty, but a necessity -- accepting that our society forces a woman to choose between her economic survival and her child's life.
True feminism calls for true reform. A true feminist demands that women have the tools they need to succeed financially and socially and be mothers as well -- inexpensive, readily available childcare, a workplace or school that acknowledges the needs of mothers, including flexible scheduling and maternity leave, and welfare that actually works towards re-integrating a woman into the workforce. If all this were accomplished -- if women were truly respected, and had true equality -- abortion would be unnecessary.
Therefore, rather than demanding the dubious 'right' of a woman to kill her offspring in order to fit into a patriarchal world, feminists should be working to change that world. We should be demanding that women be respected, rather than punished, for being mothers.

If people only understood how much economics has an impact on this subject. Most nations that have the lowest abortion rates subsidize day care and have liberal labor laws for parents. For example in some countries the government guarantees that a mother with a new born can take up to a year in motherhood leave at 75% pay with absolutely no fallout or risk in loosing her job. Sometimes employers will offer more time on top of this as a benefit, not to mention universal health care.
Are aspects of American society more cut throat than family friendly? Could we do more as a society to assist hard working mothers who are laborers or students raise a family? Here’s a link to a policy suggestion providing for more flex time for parents and families suggested by the Democratic Leadership Council:

PPI | Policy Report | November 15, 2006
Flexible Work for Strong Families
By Michele Stockwell
Executive Summary
Americans are working more hours than ever before in pursuit of middle-class lifestyles. The traditional family structure, where dads worked 9 to 5 and moms stayed home, is a thing of the past. Today more than 70 percent of mothers with children under 18 are now in the labor force and fathers work more hours each week than did their counterparts of 30 years ago.
Not surprisingly, the trend toward longer hours on the job has workers feeling starved for time to spend at home with their families. Yet many working parents lack…
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=...ntentid=254111

Is being “pro-family” more than the hot-button issues, but a worldview that extends into even the everyday economics and policies of work and labor?

Could we foster a culture of life by fostering a culture of “family”?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

So what do you think? Should legislation be introduced to charge abortion doctors with accessory to murder?

Originally Posted by cneasttx

Only if they charge the mother too.

I do not agree with abortion. Infact I hate it and will vote against it everytime or not vote at all. The truth is infact messing with the rights of people. If you tell a women she can not abort a baby you are messing with certain rights that I am not comfortable with. If you take that away someone try to pass a bill that makes it illegal to go to church or whatever. Again I an against abortion, but this country was founded on freedom priciples. I would love for it to be made illegal, but it might not stop there and everything will be illegal. We all have the rights to buy things and do things. Not all which are lawful. I think that it is injustice to an unborn baby to be aborted, but where is the line which our rights are safe. It could be worse. At least it is now a choice and not a law. Everything could be worse.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I do not agree with abortion. Infact I hate it and will vote against it everytime or not vote at all. The truth is infact messing with the rights of people. If you tell a women she can not abort a baby you are messing with certain rights that I am not comfortable with. If you take that away someone try to pass a bill that makes it illegal to go to church or whatever. Again I an against abortion, but this country was founded on freedom priciples. I would love for it to be made illegal, but it might not stop there and everything will be illegal. We all have the rights to buy things and do things. Not all which are lawful. I think that it is injustice to an unborn baby to be aborted, but where is the line which our rights are safe. It could be worse. At least it is now a choice and not a law. Everything could be worse.

Amen. From a moral perspective "choice" places the moral responsibility on the individual. Should we continue to preach against it? YES. Should we do our best to legally close the doors of clinics? Yes. But we should also serve as advocates calling society to address the issues women and families face, working to reduce the abortion rate.

Just my opinion.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by StMark

this guy has gone nuts. what's wrong with him lately??

I seriously think there is something physically wrong with him.

He doesn't look right - has anyone noticed how gaunt and
Old looking he's been lately???

He's an Ultra Lib....just like Ultra Cons....well.....you know

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Amen. From a moral perspective "choice" places the moral responsibility on the individual. Should we continue to preach against it? YES. Should we do our best to legally close the doors of clinics? Yes. But we should also serve as advocates calling society to address the issues women and families face, working to reduce the abortion rate.

Just my opinion.

Well said, Sir!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On View Post
If you are moral, do you murder?


Originally posted by Scotty;
The act of murder expands and covers more than just morality. Alot of people I find to be immoral still would not commit murder.

Yes, a social problem. Where do social problems begin?

Originally Posted by scotty

Lack of God, period.

Originally posted by Scotty;
The act of murder expands and covers more than just morality. Alot of people I find to be immoral still would not commit murder.

But if a person murders they have a moral problem. It doesn't matter whether an immoral person murders or not. They are still having issues with morality, whatever they are involved in.

Last word!

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

So what do you think? Should legislation be introduced to charge abortion doctors with accessory to murder?

1. Such legislation could not be introduced unless there was first legislation in place that shows that abortion IS murder.

2. The government does not have the right to prosecute doctors or women for committing an act that they have deemed legal. Therefore, even if such legislation were to pass (and it never will), it should only apply to doctors and women performing or receiving ILLEGAL abortions, that is, outside of the time frame in which they were legal, or using illegal methods.

3. I think that doctors who perform abortions are cold-blooded murderers, but IF the government says something is legal, when it shouldn't be, then the government itself should be on trial--not the doctors who are not technically committing a criminal act.

[scotty]

What about the man?!?!

I know , it is in the womans body. But what if the father had the means to care for his child, why does he not have a say in whether or not it lives or dies.

Before I came to God I was in a serious relationship for 3 and a half years. She told me she was pregnant and wanted me to help pay for an abortion. She was still in college so she didn't feel having a baby was an option right then. I was through with college, had a great paying job, my own place and my mom and dad (who were in the church) totally volunteered to help me in the childs care. I refused to help pay and begged her to have it and I would take the child and she could do as she wished. She payed for it all, killed the child and needless to say we parted ways.

What about me? What choice did I have in determining the future of my child.? Or is it not my child until its born? That was 18 years ago, yet I the tears still come when I think about the fact that I could be sitting at a graduation ceremony this summer and have 18yrs of fatherhood memories. Did she really have the right to take my child from me? WWJD?

It's not an economic issue brother, it's called society without God. Period