Family Structure

[TJJJ]

Rhoni

We are seeing the results, in many pentecostal churches, both con and liberal, where the pastor wants to step into the home and try to pastor the family around the headship of the father. This is an absolute disaster proven to be wrong time and time again.

Enjoyed the article

TJJJ

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Rhoni

We are seeing the results, in many pentecostal churches, both con and liberal, where the pastor wants to step into the home and try to pastor the family around the headship of the father. This is an absolute disaster proven to be wrong time and time again.

Enjoyed the article

TJJJ

Thank you TJ. My father was not in the church but was a good man. He complained many times that he had no authority over his home because my mother only obeyed the pastor and whatever he said. I think it was one of the reasons why it took my father so long to give his life to God.

Just my observations; many poverty level or under-educated people, as well as the truly dysfunctional give someone else control over themselves and their lives. This is not something easily done to those who have more finances [with money comes more choices], and the more educated just will not allow it to happen.

There appears to be a correlation between these things and the reasons why it is more difficult for authoritarian or controlling Pastors to have the more educated in their churches. They use the excuse that they are not "in submission", but the truth is they are not going to foolishly give up the reigns of their life to another's control. They will talk to God themselves. This 'spiritual maturity' seems to bother some ministers - wonder why since that should be their ultimate goal to grow up spiritual babies to mature saints.

Blessings, Rhoni

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Thank you TJ.

Just my observations; many poverty level or under-educated people, as well as the truly dysfunctional give someone else control over themselves and their lives. This is not something easily done to those who have more finances [with money comes more choices], and the more educated just will not allow it to happen.

There appears to be a correlation between these things and the reasons why it is more difficult for authoritarian or controlling Pastors to have the more educated in their churches. They use the excuse that they are not "in submission", but the truth is they are not going to foolishly give up the reigns of their life to another's control. They will talk to God themselves. This 'spiritual maturity' seems to bother some ministers - wonder why since that should be their ultimate goal to grow up spiritual babies to mature saints.

Blessings, Rhoni

This has been my observation and understanding also. The total controlling pastor usually doesn't have the highly educated in his congregation. They're able to think for themselves.

[TJJJ]

I have been all through the UPCI, around the ACI and ultracons for a long time. The one thing I have seen consistently is a tendency by these to micromanage EVERY facet of people's lives. It breeds an immaturity among the people as they no longer have to think for themselves or make any decisions.

Our pastor says to seek counsel on large decisions, as the pastor should be a counselor, but ultimeley that decision should be the individuals.

We had a situation here that a woman's unsaved husband told her he did not want her coming to church for a few months. She had just went through chemo and had lost her hair.

They asked Pastor what to do, he said she needed to submit to the authority of her husband in this thing. What we did instead, was to visit her in her home and take the "church" to her! Weekly visits, tapes, and uplifting calls took her through this crisis and today she is back to attending church and her husband likes the church because at no time did he ever feel threatened by the assembly. He was not fighting the church for his wife!

He mows the lawns sometimes and always has a good word to say about the church. Could you imagine the division if Pastor had tried to go around the husband? We would never be able to win that man! Now, we have inroads because we left the family authority intact!

God is good!

[commonsense]

A very wise pastor. I Cor 12:8

[ILG]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

He mows the lawns sometimes and always has a good word to say about the church. Could you imagine the division if Pastor had tried to go around the husband? We would never be able to win that man! Now, we have inroads because we left the family authority intact!

God is good!

I have seen this happen and it causes bitter feelings, indeed. Sounds like a wise choice on the part of your pastor.

[Blubayou]

Very insightful comments on this thread. Interesting reading. I have been under a micromanaging pastor and seen first hand the damage it will do to individuals, families and the church in general.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Thank you TJ. My father was not in the church but was a good man. He complained many times that he had no authority over his home because my mother only obeyed the pastor and whatever he said. I think it was one of the reasons why it took my father so long to give his life to God.

Just my observations; many poverty level or under-educated people, as well as the truly dysfunctional give someone else control over themselves and their lives. This is not something easily done to those who have more finances [with money comes more choices], and the more educated just will not allow it to happen.

There appears to be a correlation between these things and the reasons why it is more difficult for authoritarian or controlling Pastors to have the more educated in their churches. They use the excuse that they are not "in submission", but the truth is they are not going to foolishly give up the reigns of their life to another's control. They will talk to God themselves. This 'spiritual maturity' seems to bother some ministers - wonder why since that should be their ultimate goal to grow up spiritual babies to mature saints.

Blessings, Rhoni

Originally Posted by commonsense

This has been my observation and understanding also. The total controlling pastor usually doesn't have the highly educated in his congregation. They're able to think for themselves.

Originally Posted by TJJJ

I have been all through the UPCI, around the ACI and ultracons for a long time. The one thing I have seen consistently is a tendency by these to micromanage EVERY facet of people's lives. It breeds an immaturity among the people as they no longer have to think for themselves or make any decisions.

Our pastor says to seek counsel on large decisions, as the pastor should be a counselor, but ultimeley that decision should be the individuals.

We had a situation here that a woman's unsaved husband told her he did not want her coming to church for a few months. She had just went through chemo and had lost her hair.

They asked Pastor what to do, he said she needed to submit to the authority of her husband in this thing. What we did instead, was to visit her in her home and take the "church" to her! Weekly visits, tapes, and uplifting calls took her through this crisis and today she is back to attending church and her husband likes the church because at no time did he ever feel threatened by the assembly. He was not fighting the church for his wife!

He mows the lawns sometimes and always has a good word to say about the church. Could you imagine the division if Pastor had tried to go around the husband? We would never be able to win that man! Now, we have inroads because we left the family authority intact!

God is good!

TJ, Thank you for the flip side of this. Many times we only see the negative as it is so prominent, but there are some very wise pastors who know their role and how to spiritually grow up their saints.

I know I have said this before but it bears repeating: John Maxwell has a leadership series that describes the different leadership styles and how successful they are in mentoring leaders.

Many ALJC & UPCI leaders are not able to mentor and send out leaders because they are easily threatened or intimidated by those who are educated or those who are strong capable leaders. It takes a strong and capable leader to be able to raise up leaders.

I watched one church which was filled with strong capable leaders dwindle to half the size and rebuild with followers as the leaders hit upon the same wall of being demoted, their positions deleted, and the ministry leadership continue to be intimidated and needed others to affirm him by obeying his every command before he would allow them a credible leadership position.

The mass exodus of reputable, capable leaders spawned a revial with a Pastor's friend speaking on how God was weeding out he unfruitful branches from the vine which was not the case at all. This was the only message I ever heard from this reputable evangelist that was not God anointed but Pastor driven.

I think that young ministers coming up need more education, and more mentoring by capable leaders so they won't fall into the trap that so many fall into with their little group of obedient servants that think they hung the moon so they never realize their full potential in ministry.

As always, just my observational opinion.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Withdrawn]

Good thoughts here Rhoni.

This is a very prevalent mindset in our ranks - ALJC and UPCI. My pastor (also my BIL) recently went on a 11-day fishing trip in Canada. We have a small congregation (50 - 60 folks). Some of his pastor-friends expressed disbelief that he would leave the church for so long. One of these men has sworn that he would NEVER have even an assistant pastor because he doesn't want someone else coming in and wrestling control from him. HOW SAD IS THAT?!?!

My BIL expressed to them that he appreciates all the help anyone is willing to give and was completely confident that he had people in the congregation who could pick up the extra slack and keep things going. He is about growing and maturing saints so that he has less to do - and he certainly has no desire to manage or micromanage peoples' lives.

BTW... we had some great studies and sermons in his absence - the work didn't fall apart. Imagine that!

It comes down to this principle... if your teaching is nourishment as it's supposed to be, the saints will grow and learn to seek God for themselves. I do recognize that this is a rare commodity in our culture.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by jaamez

Good thoughts here Rhoni.

This is a very prevalent mindset in our ranks - ALJC and UPCI. My pastor (also my BIL) recently went on a 11-day fishing trip in Canada. We have a small congregation (50 - 60 folks). Some of his pastor-friends expressed disbelief that he would leave the church for so long. One of these men has sworn that he would NEVER have even an assistant pastor because he doesn't want someone else coming in and wrestling control from him. HOW SAD IS THAT?!?!

My BIL expressed to them that he appreciates all the help anyone is willing to give and was completely confident that he had people in the congregation who could pick up the extra slack and keep things going. He is about growing and maturing saints so that he has less to do - and he certainly has no desire to manage or micromanage peoples' lives.

It comes down to this principle... if your teaching is nourishment as it's supposed to be, the saints will grow and learn to seek God for themselves. I do recognize that this is a rare commodity in our culture.

Sounds like your BIL has a lot going for him. Thank you for sharing this insight.

Blessings, Rhoni