__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I like Ben Stein and really enjoyed his columns back in the 1980's in the old American Spectator. And to answer RW's concerns, the Intelligent Design Movement is something else other than the Young Earth Creationism of the ICR (Institute for Creation Research) and Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis.
The ID movement sprang from the ministry of Philip Johnson and is promoted largely by the Seattle based Discovery Institute. The Discovery Institute includes people like Michael Behe who support biological evolution across the spectrum to Philip Johnson who denies that biological evolution ever took place. Their principle spokeman is Jonathan Wells - a fervent and devout Moonie who took up the study of biology at the insistance of Rev. Moon himself.
The Discovery Institute does not publish their funding sources, but the Unification Church is known to be a big supporter. How big, is anyone's guess but Jonathan Wells (author of Icons of Evolution) is very prominent there.
During production, the movie Expelled was presented as a film called "Crossroads: Between Religion and Science" and many of the interviewees were told that it was a "pro-evolution" film. That is how they were able to deceive Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott and others to appear in it. The producers lied about the film they were making.
Given that the film was made with a series of lies- can we expect honesty from the producers in the finished product? We'll have to wait and see. But the producers are on record for lying - sort of like the Borat "mockumentary" only this one isn't being sold as a comedy.
Ironically, though the movie purports to be about academic openess, advanced screenings of the film were given to only specially selected reviewers who were all required to sign non-disclosure statements. The producers were and still are very concerned about the inevitable Fisking that they're about to receive.
They were promoting this movie heavily at the National Religous Broadcasters convention here in Nashville a few weeks ago.
They had a big motorhome on the exhibit floor with the wrap a round graphics promoting the film and apparently were showing clips from it inside. I ran out of time before I could check it out.
I like Ben Stein and really enjoyed his columns back in the 1980's in the old American Spectator. And to answer RW's concerns, the Intelligent Design Movement is something else other than the Young Earth Creationism of the ICR (Institute for Creation Research) and Ken Ham's Answers in Genesis.
The ID movement sprang from the ministry of Philip Johnson and is promoted largely by the Seattle based Discovery Institute. The Discovery Institute includes people like Michael Behe who support biological evolution across the spectrum to Philip Johnson who denies that biological evolution ever took place. Their principle spokeman is Jonathan Wells - a fervent and devout Moonie who took up the study of biology at the insistance of Rev. Moon himself.
The Discovery Institute does not publish their funding sources, but the Unification Church is known to be a big supporter. How big, is anyone's guess but Jonathan Wells (author of Icons of Evolution) is very prominent there.
During production, the movie Expelled was presented as a film called "Crossroads: Between Religion and Science" and many of the interviewees were told that it was a "pro-evolution" film. That is how they were able to deceive Richard Dawkins, Eugenie Scott and others to appear in it. The producers lied about the film they were making.
Given that the film was made with a series of lies- can we expect honesty from the producers in the finished product? We'll have to wait and see. But the producers are on record for lying - sort of like the Borat "mockumentary" only this one isn't being sold as a comedy.
Ironically, though the movie purports to be about academic openess, advanced screenings of the film were given to only specially selected reviewers who were all required to sign non-disclosure statements. The producers were and still are very concerned about the inevitable Fisking that they're about to receive.
So where's the quarrel? Merely said I would see it. :-)
Most of what I have seen pass for "science" among these who espouse intelligent design is junk science as well.
However, the concept that there is an intelligence behind creation goes back as long as man has existed, and was embraced by men such as modern men of science as Newton and Einstein generations ago.
Personally I think Stein is more about intellectual freedom and anti-censorship by "the left"
So where's the quarrel? Merely said I would see it. :-)
Most of what I have seen pass for "science" among these who espouse intelligent design is junk science as well.
However, the concept that there is an intelligence behind creation goes back as long as man has existed, and was embraced by men such as modern men of science as Newton and Einstein generations ago.
Personally I think Stein is more about intellectual freedom and anti-censorship by "the left"
We appear to be in agreement. (sigh!) Oh well...
There are plenty of areas where the Left can be faulted for silencing dissent. Some universities are almost facist in the way conservatives are treated in what is supposed to be an intellectually open environment.
As a Christian believer however, I have been continually embarrassed by "Creation Science" and its off-shoot "Intelligent Design." That being said, there is a lot of science that supports the idea of creation. And the complexities of form found in nature, as Richard Dawkins has said, give at least the appearance of design.
But when these words are capitalized and used to label agendas that are promulgated by deceptive tactics and money from the Moonies, I have to take issue. Expelled was done with more deception than even a Michael Moore documentary.
There are plenty of areas where the Left can be faulted for silencing dissent. Some universities are almost facist in the way conservatives are treated in what is supposed to be an intellectually open environment.
As a Christian believer however, I have been continually embarrassed by "Creation Science" and its off-shoot "Intelligent Design." That being said, there is a lot of science that supports the idea of creation. And the complexities of form found in nature, as Richard Dawkins has said, give at least the appearance of design.
But when these words are capitalized and used to label agendas that are promulgated by deceptive tactics and money from the Moonies, I have to take issue. Expelled was done with more deception than even a Michael Moore documentary.
Are you saying you don't see intelligent design in the world around us?
Some of the scriptures point to an intelligent designer through a common sense approach, but of course, the Bible states that designer is the Lord/God.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Psalm 19:1-2 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
I'd like to read the article that claims lies and deception were used in the making of this movie. Do you have a link?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
Sometimes, for fun. And James is a friend whose wisdom and humanity I admire. Sometimes I just like to try and tickle him a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Pelathais,
Are you saying you don't see intelligent design in the world around us?
Not at all. I was trying to make a distinction between intelligentdesign and the contemporary movement known as the "Intelligent Design Movement" (note the capital letters) spearheaded by the Moonie funded Discovery Institute in Seattle.
I believe that we can discern some intelligence in the overall design of the cosmos. This design however, is far more subtly discerned then what the porponents of I.D. would lead us to believe. I would say that the phenonmenon is really better described as "nurturing" than an imposed designed upon all of creation.
There are far too many things that happen in our universe where God is not manifestly involved - things like the arrangment of the rocks on the Planitia Argyle on Mars or the outcome of a board game. And yet the same natural forces and statistical odds that formed those two things are also responsible for the arrangement of my own DNA. In the first two cases, I can't say that God really "cared" about the outcome. The latter case, my DNA (and your own unique patterns), I think God cares very much about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Some of the scriptures point to an intelligent designer through a common sense approach, but of course, the Bible states that designer is the Lord/God.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
This is really an aside to the statement, "whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end." God is fashioning our lives in a world fashioned initially by Him, but also subject to forces that are not "of God" or even necessisarily evil - but mere happenstance (Ecclesiastes 9:11).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Psalm 19:1-2 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
And the knowledge that we glean from the heavens about the glory of God includes the fact that our cosmos is about 13 Billion years old. This would seem to indicate that His glory encompasses far more than the span of our puny lives- or even in deed, far more than the extent of all human existence can tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
I'd like to read the article that claims lies and deception were used in the making of this movie. Do you have a link?
The link from the New Scientist magazine review is here. And then, here are some other articles and interviews that shed some light on the circumstances under which the film was made.
Wikipedia.org has a link to this "movie" called "Crossroads" and describes it at the producer's website. However, notice that between the time that the Wikipedia article was written (~ 12/12/2007) and today, Rampant Films is no longer promoting a film called "Crossroads," but the Ben Stein piece is now featured.
Professor Meyers continues his pursuit for an explanation from Mathis here - without much luck.
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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