I believe in once saved, always saved!

[Joe 7]

I just knew this topic would be in debate.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by kpt608

I just knew this topic would be in debate.

I'll challenge that assertion.

No you you didn't. You had no idea.

So there.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

We were chosen by him BEFORE the world was created. But why did he choose us? God is no respecter of persons and He doesn't pull names out of a hat (He's not arbitrary as in this definition: Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice. )

I agree that our response is expected by God because it was foreknown of Him. He knew Esau would sell his birthright. That, I believe, is why he loved Jacob and hated Esau. Before we were actualities, he knew us as actualities because of His foreknowledge, He based His calling us and electing us to eternal life. Before we actually did anything (works), He called us because of His perfect foreknowledge.


I don't feel like you answered my question so I'll ask it again: Are we chosen by God [according to His] foreknowledge of the choice we would make to believe the gospel?

The ultimate redemption of all, with curative punishment is the only position that answers all the questions. Just like a loving and wise parent, God calls and seeks and endlessly pursues the ultimate surrender of each of His creation. Some thru the fire, and some thru the flood, but all thru the blood the He once and for ALL shed for all creatures, on earth, under the earth, in heaven and ALL that are in them.

With man it is impossible, yet thru God ALL things are possible.

[augustianian]

First of all,

PELATHIAS,

Just wondering if you need any help here. Having a conversation with more than one person can be confusing.

Originally Posted by crakjak

But there's one more question that such a position doesn't answer. Is it biblical??
(

Where can this be found in the text that gives such an interpretation as you've given while maintaining with no legitimate interpretation of the grammar and the scriptures as a whole??

I think you take certain texts that use the word "all" and apply that to every thing that has ever breathed.

On the face of it, why all this fuss?? If God intends to save everything I don't see where even knowing that is beneficial. If Christ had just died and not told anybody wouldn't your position still hold?? It sure would have saved a lot of sorrow, and since you have objected to Calvinism in another thread based on the character of God...then how moral is God to give us this information, (knowing we would argue, fight, and kill because of it) if He intends to save everything anyway.

In that case I don't know what belief and unbelief means at all.

Seems like the apostles should have just shut up.

It's not a matter of it being impossible...but rather a manner of His purpose.

a

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by augustianian

First of all,

PELATHIAS,

Just wondering if you need any help here. Having a conversation with more than one person can be confusing.



It's not a matter of it being impossible...but rather a manner of His purpose.

a

I get confused talking to myself, let alone others. I hear so many voices crying out at once, all demanding my attention... And that's just when I'm alone!

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

So please tell me more about election if you feel led to.

Thanks.

Election simply put means choosing or chosen,God chose to use grace as the means of our redemption.The elect in scripture can mean saved Jewish believers such as when the scripture in ROMANS speak about a remnant according to the election or choosing by grace.
Also the elect can be the church,such as when the scripture tells us to make our calling and election sure.
Grace is soverign in the fact,that God shows His mercy to who evers He wills to.

Man can reject the grace of God,or submit to it.
If God in His soverignity doesn't send His Spirit to draw one to Himself,they can't come to God.
God's will is for all to come to repentance,but yet God knows the end from the beginning or the beginning from the end.
In the book of ACTS it speaks of the predeterminate counsel and foreknowledge of God.
So words like foreordained,election,predestination are all Bible words.
If Grace is not soverign,then it's not Grace at all.

[Scott Hutchinson]

God's purpose is according to the election of grace,let whosoever will come and partake freely of the river of life.

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Election simply put means choosing or chosen,God chose to use grace as the means of our redemption.The elect in scripture can mean saved Jewish believers such as when the scripture in ROMANS speak about a remnant according to the election or choosing by grace.
Also the elect can be the church,such as when the scripture tells us to make our calling and election sure.
Grace is soverign in the fact,that God shows His mercy to who evers He wills to.

Man can reject the grace of God,or submit to it.
If God in His soverignity doesn't send His Spirit to draw one to Himself,they can't come to God.
God's will is for all to come to repentance,but yet God knows the end from the beginning or the beginning from the end.
In the book of ACTS it speaks of the predeterminate counsel and foreknowledge of God.
So words like foreordained,election,predestination are all Bible words.
If Grace is not soverign,then it's not Grace at all.

I must say- it is refreshing for someone to speak truth, wow. This happens when one can study the Word with a pure heart without the boundaries of organized religion.

Thank you!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by augustianian

First of all,

PELATHIAS,

Just wondering if you need any help here. Having a conversation with more than one person can be confusing.



It's not a matter of it being impossible...but rather a manner of His purpose.

a

I believe it is always the purpose of a wise and good father to parent his children to be persons of character and goodness.

If God does this for His children they will all/everyone eventually reach that conclusion.

[augustianian]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I believe it is always the purpose of a wise and good father to parent his children to be persons of character and goodness.

If God does this for His children they will all/everyone eventually reach that conclusion.

Me thinks that you don't want to go into this in any depth. That's fine. I will ask this though....

Which one was His child, Esau or Jacob??

God bless,
a