Political: Moderate, Centrist, and Progressive Thread

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

I take it you had a bad experience in Europe? LOL

No, I have never been there. I simply responded to your remark on Belgium.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I lean Libertarian so I see Chris' point. Government really should keep it's nose out of the abortion issue. It's too complex and no answer will adequately address the issue. I like what the Libertarian Party says in it's platform regarding abortion.

I with 55% of Americans recently polled find less Government entertaining. Gaining 4% of the electorial vote means The Libertarian Party is not viable. They don't even address property rights, and more Americans would be upset on that hot button.
Let me state as a Holy Ghost Believer, I find murder of unborn children abhorrent.

[Sister Alvear]

Maybe should move to Brazil where our hospitals are filled beyond capacity..the sick die in the halls...lines for everything...laws are elastic...free medicine but they never have any...free doctors hospital service but seldom find any where to check in..

lol..

Maybe Canada yes...

You can never imagine how blessed you are in America...run it down all you want but just come and live in a 3rd world country and you will sing another tune..
As far as politics the early church voted in no election...I take their stand...I pray for rulers but vote for no one...Yes, some laugh...at least I live my convictions and that is what is important and I do keep up with what is going on...the stage has been set...long before we were players on life´s stage...

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Maybe should move to Brazil where our hospitals are filled beyond capacity..the sick die in the halls...lines for everything...laws are elastic...free medicine but they never have any...free doctors hospital service but seldom find any where to check in..

lol..

Maybe Canada yes...

You can never imagine how blessed you are in America...run it down all you want but just come and live in a 3rd world country and you will sing another tune..
As far as politics the early church voted in no election...I take their stand...I pray for rulers but vote for no one...Yes, some laugh...at least I live my convictions and that is what is important and I do keep up with what is going on...the stage has been set...long before we were players on life´s stage...

Sis. Alvear, I know American is fine country, but my family and I go to Canada every year and I have a couple good friends there. When it comes to health care, they are better off than we are. Every year in the United States 18,000 people die of treatable illness simply because the system will not insure them because it wouldn't be profitable. In my heart of hearts, that's a national tragedy. We fight for an unborn life...but when that child is born to a poor family and his mother or father becomes ill, we pray some charity might help them, if the charity doesn't come or is insufficient we just let them die and we pat ourselves on our backs about our free market medicine system. I go to Canada every year and I had my own personal "Sicko" (a documentary supporting universal health insurance) experience long before "Sicko" was ever produced. I've been outside of this country and was shocked when I really looked into how other nations invest in each other as a society. The myths behind universal health care became evident to me and I was shocked to hear conservative men I respected repeat them.

Here are the statistics ranking health care systems throughout the world according to the World Health Organization:

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb) Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania
56 Seychelles
57 Paraguay
58 South Korea
59 Senegal
60 Philippines
61 Mexico
62 Slovakia
63 Egypt
64 Kazakhstan
65 Uruguay
66 Hungary
67 Trinidad and Tobago
68 Saint Lucia
69 Belize
70 Turkey
71 Nicaragua
72 Belarus
73 Lithuania
74 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
75 Argentina
76 Sri Lanka
77 Estonia
78 Guatemala
79 Ukraine
80 Solomon Islands
81 Algeria
82 Palau
83 Jordan
84 Mauritius
85 Grenada
86 Antigua and Barbuda
87 Libya
88 Bangladesh
89 Macedonia
90 Bosnia-Herzegovina
91 Lebanon
92 Indonesia
93 Iran
94 Bahamas
95 Panama
96 Fiji
97 Benin
98 Nauru
99 Romania
100 Saint Kitts and Nevis
101 Moldova
102 Bulgaria
103 Iraq
104 Armenia
105 Latvia
106 Yugoslavia
107 Cook Islands
108 Syria
109 Azerbaijan
110 Suriname
111 Ecuador
112 India
113 Cape Verde
114 Georgia
115 El Salvador
116 Tonga
117 Uzbekistan
118 Comoros
119 Samoa
120 Yemen
121 Niue
122 Pakistan
123 Micronesia
124 Bhutan
125 Brazil
126 Bolivia
127 Vanuatu
128 Guyana
129 Peru
130 Russia
131 Honduras
132 Burkina Faso
133 Sao Tome and Principe
134 Sudan
135 Ghana
136 Tuvalu
137 Ivory Coast
138 Haiti
139 Gabon
140 Kenya
141 Marshall Islands
142 Kiribati
143 Burundi
144 China
145 Mongolia
146 Gambia
147 Maldives
148 Papua New Guinea
149 Uganda
150 Nepal
151 Kyrgystan
152 Togo
153 Turkmenistan
154 Tajikistan
155 Zimbabwe
156 Tanzania
157 Djibouti
158 Eritrea
159 Madagascar
160 Vietnam
161 Guinea
162 Mauritania
163 Mali
164 Cameroon
165 Laos
166 Congo
167 North Korea
168 Namibia
169 Botswana
170 Niger
171 Equatorial Guinea
172 Rwanda
173 Afghanistan
174 Cambodia
175 South Africa
176 Guinea-Bissau
177 Swaziland
178 Chad
179 Somalia
180 Ethiopia
181 Angola
182 Zambia
183 Lesotho
184 Mozambique
185 Malawi
186 Liberia
187 Nigeria
188 Democratic Republic of the Congo
189 Central African Republic
190 Myanmar

The United States is 37th on the list while Brazil is 125th. Yes, we are thankful that we are that blessed, but the point is...we are the most wealthy and most powerful nation on earth. We can do better if we can get past thinking like mental midgets 2008. Right above us is Costa Rica and right below us is Slovenia. What's that tell you about our health care system? It's antiquated. It's not the worst but it's far from being the best. It's nowhere near the top 5.

We can do better than this! And it's going to take progressives and centrists to make it happen.

Here in Oregon, my 15 year old daughter can have an abortion without parental consent- they don't even have to tell us!

Do you know who voted this in? Liberals, progressive types!

And guess what? You have to be 18 to watch a rated R movie!

Do you think a 15 year old has the cognitive and psychological maturity to be able to determine the impact of her one decision could affect the rest of her life and that she is taking another human being's life?

Chris- this is why most people who have a heart and are faithful to Jesus will never become liberal or 'progressive', (a nice way to describe someone who puts down their conservative values and puts on liberal ones).

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Sis. Alvear, I know American is fine country, but my family and I go to Canada every year and I have a couple good friends there. When it comes to health care, they are better off than we are. Every year in the United States 18,000 people die of treatable illness simply because the system will not insure them because it wouldn't be profitable. In my heart of hearts, that's a national tragedy. We fight for an unborn life...but when that child is born to a poor family and his mother or father becomes ill, we pray some charity might help them, if the charity doesn't come or is insufficient we just let them die and we pat ourselves on our backs about our free market medicine system. I go to Canada every year and I had my own personal "Sicko" (a documentary supporting universal health insurance) experience long before "Sicko" was ever produced. I've been outside of this country and was shocked when I really looked into how other nations invest in each other as a society. The myths behind universal health care became evident to me and I was shocked to hear conservative men I respected repeat them.

Here are the statistics ranking health care systems throughout the world according to the World Health Organization:



The United States is 37th on the list while Brazil is 125th. Yes, we are thankful that we are that blessed, but the point is...we are the most wealthy and most powerful nation on earth. We can do better if we can get past thinking like mental midgets 2008. Right above us is Costa Rica and right below us is Slovenia. What's that tell you about our health care system? It's antiquated. It's not the worst but it's far from being the best. It's nowhere near the top 5.

We can do better than this! And it's going to take progressives and centrists to make it happen.

Christopher, you seem like a highly intelligent person. Your post shows you don't know beans about how a health care system socialized in America would work. If you want Canadian Healthcare, move to Canada. No need to elect a man who made a living extorting drug companies and driving up costs (John Edwards).

Only this week in the news a lady in ICU could not return to Vancouver, BC. Seems the government reduced the number of beds, and now there is not an empty bed to allow her to return.

The healthcare companies did not count on a hospital charging $56 for a bottle of eyedrops, or $5 to dispense an aspirin tablet. I don't care for large executives getting Billion US Dollar bonuses while a $7 clerk determines my health "benefits" either. Sponsored by the Government, we would see the calls eventually outsourced and not only do you have 2 hr phone waiting, you then get someone you cannot understand, and who can understand you less pushing a button to deny your case without any means of appeal.

[trickledown]

Chris
This is from the report that ABC's John Stossel made about the failure of the WHO to report accurately due to politically motivated methods: he starts with the weight of life expectancy in the findings, I'll pick up here "Similarly, our homicide rate is 10 times higher than in the U.K., eight times higher than in France, and five times greater than in Canada.

When you adjust for these "fatal injury" rates, U.S. life expectancy is actually higher than in nearly every other industrialized nation.



Diet and lack of exercise also bring down average life expectancy.

Another reason the U.S. didn't score high in the WHO rankings is that we are less socialistic than other nations. What has that got to do with the quality of health care? For the authors of the study, it's crucial. The WHO judged countries not on the absolute quality of health care, but on how "fairly" health care of any quality is "distributed." The problem here is obvious. By that criterion, a country with high-quality care overall but "unequal distribution" would rank below a country with lower quality care but equal distribution.

It's when this so-called "fairness," a highly subjective standard, is factored in that the U.S. scores go south.

The U.S. ranking is influenced heavily by the number of people -- 45 million -- without medical insurance. As I reported in previous columns, our government aggravates that problem by making insurance artificially expensive with, for example, mandates for coverage that many people would not choose and forbidding us to buy policies from companies in another state.

Even with these interventions, the 45 million figure is misleading. Thirty-seven percent of that group live in households making more than $50,000 a year, says the U.S. Census Bureau. Nineteen percent are in households making more than $75,000 a year; 20 percent are not citizens, and 33 percent are eligible for existing government programs but are not enrolled.

For all its problems, the U.S. ranks at the top for quality of care and innovation, including development of life-saving drugs. It "falters" only when the criterion is proximity to socialized medicine."

John Stossel is an award-winning news correspondent and author of Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity: Get Out the Shovel--Why Everything You Know is Wrong.

I am troubled that your coup d’état to Sis Alvear is based on absurd findings by an organization that is as much a joke as the United Nations. You apparently have had some problems yourself with healthcare in our country. I am sorry that you have had these problems, but healthcare is not a right that is guaranteed nor is it a Biblical ideal. That doesn't mean that your advocacy of so many social ideals is wrong. You seem to simply be looking out for what you feel is best for yourself and using information from the lies of someone like Michael Moore to do it. Thankfully our country still has a population that desires less government and more of their own paycheck. We are however at the tipping point. I suspect that in our lifetime we will see the pendulum swing in favor of the have nots who expect that others who have more should do more for them.
Reading your post about the sad state of affairs in this country leaves me wondering if you remember how bad things were in 79 when we didn't have all of "Reagan’s failures" as you see them to contend with? If we forget our history; we may have to repeat it.
Perhaps you should look into the writings of Carl Marx. He along with Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand may help you with your outlook.

May God bless your Christian endeavors.

PRO CHOICE IS PRO ABORTION....GOOD GRIEF HOW CAN YOU BE SO DECIEVED*** ******************

[Sister Alvear]

I am not a political person but I do keep up some with what is going on. I admire Canada but what works there might not work in the states...

If we say we are for this one or that one we must think long and hard.

I live in the rugged northeast of Brazil where politicans have hit men and most carry guns...we have political killings all the time...Politics and God do not mix...Politics is far more evil than television in my opinion...and that reasoning is from someone that does not have a television...

[MissBrattified]

I understand that abortion is a complicated matter for some people, and I also understand that even when laws are passed, they may not be adequately carried out. HOWEVER, I still cannot morally place a vote for someone who openly supports abortion by their own voting practice, such as refusing to BAN particularly heinous procedures like the partial-birth abortion.

Pornography is a self-imposed immorality that only harms the adult participant, and hopefully no one else, unless they are viewing pornography that is made up of minors or that involves criminal acts. That is not even comparable to abortion, which terminates an innocent life.

I don't believe that activism helps reduce abortion; I believe that voting in strong leaders who will pass strong laws is what will reduce abortion. Quite frankly, I do not CARE if someone has to resort to a back-alley abortion if abortions were illegal. That is their choice to break the law, and unnecessary in this present day where it is relatively easy to give a child up for adoption.

And yes, to address the hypothetical, IF abortion were a crime, then women who commit that crime should be prosecuted, along with the medical staff who facilitates it. Obviously that will never happen, but it was mentioned as if it is a crime that shouldn't or can't really be prosecuted, and I wholeheartedly disagree.

When it comes to whether a person should be allowed to take another human life, then YES, the government should have a say-so. Criminal acts should be prevented and prosecuted, and murder is certainly a criminal act. It is a crying shame that not only is murder being allowed and supported in this country, but the pro-abortion rhetoric is so pervasive that even Christians have bought into the idea that abortion isn't murder, that it isn't really criminal, that it may not be immoral in all cases, and that the women who choose such action are to be sympathized with in any manner.

To be pro-choice is to be pro-abortion, because if you believe it is alright for a woman to choose whether her child can live or die, then you essentially believe it is alright for a person to choose murder without personal consequence.

[MissBrattified]

Furthermore, to suggest that abortion is a humane option in some cases where the child that lives may be poor, neglected or abused is ridiculous. Shall we now begin exterminating children born into uneducated, poor families, where neglect and abuse are likely to occur? Murdering children is NEVER humane, nor is it EVER necessary. It is never moral, it is always criminal, whether our government has laws that allow it or not, and it should never be endorsed or supported by any Christian.

In the last election, I thoroughly appreciated it when my pastor stated the following: "Christians should vote on principle; not according to their pocketbook."