Dear Dan: I ran into a conservative today ...

[J-Roc]

Dear Dan,

I have heard this phrase in OP circles about some Believers being "friends of the bride"? Do you know where this originated and what exactly it means?

Dear Danny

My Pastor has preached a few times that we have no cliques in church, yet when we have a dinner he wants all ministers at a table all alone and no one else to sit with them so they place name plates. Is this a clique?

This has become a new trend. he use to sit with all the saints at various tables.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Fonix

Dear Danny

My Pastor has preached a few times that we have no cliques in church, yet when we have a dinner he wants all ministers at a table all alone and no one else to sit with them so they place name plates. Is this a clique?

This has become a new trend. he use to sit with all the saints at various tables.

First, I would like to commend you for your courage in asking this question. All too often, we have come to believe that the man of God is infallible and beyond examination.

As I read your question I was reminded off Paul's beef with Peter, who acted in a similar manner, forgetting what God had done for the Gentiles and reverting to the sectarian mentality he once had.

Galatians 2 tells us the story:

11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him in public, because he was clearly wrong. 12 Before some men who had been sent by James arrived there, Peter had been eating with the Gentile brothers and sisters. But after these men arrived, he drew back and would not eat with the Gentiles, because he was afraid of those who were in favor of circumcising them. 13 The other Jewish brothers and sisters also started acting like cowards along with Peter; and even Barnabas was swept along by their cowardly action. 14 When I saw that they were not walking a straight path in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you have been living like a Gentile, not like a Jew. How, then, can you try to force Gentiles to live like Jews?

There are some parallels to be drawn with this passage and your situation.

The most troublesome part of scenario that you described is that at one time your pastor sat with all the saints at various tables and apparently is contradicting what he espouses, and once practiced.

Sometimes, like all of us, pastors fall into the trap of pride that Peter fell prey to. Furthermore, we cannot discount that this might be a reason for his 'sudden' change. It may very well be he has lost his compass and needs to be reminded of what he has taught and once practiced.

Having been raised in Pentecost, I have observed a widening gap between the ministry and laity in some of our circles. Each church and pastor is unique and different, but I see a trend. A levitical mindset that promotes nepotism and favoritism has gripped us, thus creating a clique of sorts.

However, there may be mitigating factors. As a pastor's kid, I have observed that at certain times various personalities may have the pastor's ear.

Perhaps the person(s) in charge of organizing these events has convinced him this is the best way to do things. Sometimes, in our efforts to be so formal and professional, things become impersonalized.

Or perhaps there is an innocent explanation for the change.

With that said, what should you do? Should you call your pastor out in public like Paul did. NO WAY!!! Paul had authority to do so.

So what to do, then?

Approach this situation, like our Master would, and as he instructed.

Matthew 18:15 says " Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother."

I am sure that if you approached your pastor, in private, with humility, reverence and candor you might be surprised with the outcome. Maybe he will give a better insight for the 'change'. Perhaps he will provide you with a perspective you did not see. Or perhaps you will serve as a wake up call for him.

Most of all, Fonix, continue to be subject to your pastor and pray for him daily.

[J-Roc]

Counselor, I don't appreciate you skipping me...I was on line first before Phonics with my question!!

[SDG]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Dear Dan,

I have heard this phrase in OP circles about some Believers being "friends of the bride"? Do you know where this originated and what exactly it means?

J-Roc

I know a little about this subject ... not enough to be authoritative. ..... but I will refer you to our resident historian, Sam ... try PMing him with this question ... he's a walking encyclopedia. One day I hope to visit him and his library.

Dan

[J-Roc]

I appreciate your thoughts, Maestro! Your words flow like honey...Man of God!

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

First, I would like to commend you for your courage in asking this question. All too often, we have come to believe that the man of God is infallible and beyond examination.

As I read your question I was reminded off Paul's beef with Peter, who acted in a similar manner, forgetting what God had done for the Gentiles and reverting to the sectarian mentality he once had.

Galatians 3 tells us the story:

11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him in public, because he was clearly wrong. 12 Before some men who had been sent by James arrived there, Peter had been eating with the Gentile brothers and sisters. But after these men arrived, he drew back and would not eat with the Gentiles, because he was afraid of those who were in favor of circumcising them. 13 The other Jewish brothers and sisters also started acting like cowards along with Peter; and even Barnabas was swept along by their cowardly action. 14 When I saw that they were not walking a straight path in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you have been living like a Gentile, not like a Jew. How, then, can you try to force Gentiles to live like Jews?

There are some parallels to be drawn with this passage and your situation.

The most troublesome part of scenario that you described is that at one time your pastor sat with all the saints at various tables and apparently is contradicting what he espouses, and once practiced.

Sometimes, like all of us, pastors fall into the trap of pride that Peter fell prey to. Furthermore, we cannot discount that this might be a reason for his 'sudden' change. It may very well be he has lost his compass and needs to be reminded of what he has taught and once practiced.

Having been raised in Pentecost, I have observed a widening gap between the ministry and laity in some of our circles. Each church and pastor is unique and different, but I see a trend. A levitical mindset that promotes nepotism and favoritism has gripped us, thus creating a clique of sorts.

However, there may be mitigating factors. As a pastor's kid, I have observed that at certain times various personalities may have the pastor's ear.

Perhaps the person(s) in charge of organizing these events has convinced him this is the best way to do things. Sometimes, in our efforts to be so formal and professional, things become impersonalized.

Or perhaps there is an innocent explanation for the change.

With that said, what should you do? Should you call your pastor out in public like Paul did. NO WAY!!! Paul had authority to do so.

So what to do, then?

Approach this situation, like our Master would, and as he instructed.

Matthew 18:15 say " Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother."

I am sure that if you approached your pastor, in private, with humility, reverence and candor you might be surprised with the outcome. Maybe he will give a better insight for the 'change'. Perhaps he will provide you with a perspective you did not see. Or perhaps you will serve as a wake up call for him.

Most of all, Fonix, continue to be subject to your pastor and pray for him daily.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by TRIPLE E

Dear Dan,Sometimes I think I am a Conservative at other times a Liberal,most of the time a Moderate.How can I figure out which of the three I am? Am I a 3 in one?

Originally Posted by Annie

Dear Dan...I am suffering a sever identity crisis. To some I am conservative, to others, I am liberal. Personally, I think I am moderate.

Can you help me 'find myself'?????

Confused in the US of A.

EEE and Confused,

I've chosen to answer these two questions simultaneously being that in essence they are similar. As children of God we should not be suffering from an identity crisis yet because our carnal man, and outside pressures, would like to label things, we suffer from this travesty.

I may play the role of liberal, here at AFF, but I loathe labels ... be them liberal, moderate, conservative ... even Apostolic.

Of course, there is a political reality in Apostolicdom that places an impetus to define who we are based on our some of ideologies and views but, in reality, it's bunch of hogwash fed to us by the enemy of our soul who would seek to divide us.

My dad hated titles and labels. No one dared to call him 'Reverend". Everyone just called him brother Manny. That's what we are, brothers and sisters.

Dad always taught us that the greatest positions/titles we had in the Kingdom were that of servants and children of God.

Jesus said:

Matthew 20
25
But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the
rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great
men exercise authority over them.
26
It shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great
among you must be your servant,
27
and whoever would be first among you must be your slave;
28
even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve,
and to give his life as a ransom for many.

The Word also tells us:

But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,
13
8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God.


Interestingly, enough when Jesus referred to his disciples he labeled them simply as 1. believers, 2. disciples, and 3. children of God and even friends

Lastly, my advice is that you continue to be balanced and temperate. I think that is why you have refused to lean to either extreme. You refuse to be a greasy gracer or a legalistic ritualistic traditionalist. You do have committed to not abuse God's grace, while keeping his commandments in love. You have separated yourself unto God, shunning the things of this world, but not to the extreme of living a dry religious existence. For this, I commend you.

Let Christ in you, define you. Find yourself in Him.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Counselor, I don't appreciate you skipping me...I was on line first before Phonics with my question!!

Thats because your not HICK enough. Thats Fonix. Not Phonics

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Steadfast,

I applaud such a firm unyielding stand ... you definitely did not grind any axes or make any justifications. Your side will be proud and maybe even ebullient.

P.S.
Can you help me put up a fence???

My 'side' thanks you.

As for fences, mine are still good and solid. I also made sure they are on 'good' ground. I suggest you do the same.

[TRIPLE E]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

EEE and Confused,

I've chosen to answer these two questions simultaneously being that in essence they are similar. As children of God we should not be suffering from an identity crisis yet because our carnal man, and outside pressures, would like to label things, we suffer from this travesty.

I may play the role of liberal, here at AFF, but I loathe labels ... be them liberal, moderate, conservative ... even Apostolic.

Of course, there is a political reality in Apostolicdom that places an impetus to define who we are based on our some of ideologies and views but, in reality, it's bunch of hogwash fed to us by the enemy of our soul who would seek to divide us.

My dad hated titles and labels. No one dared to call him 'Reverend". Everyone just called him brother Manny. That's what we are, brothers and sisters.

Dad always taught us that the greatest positions/titles we had in the Kingdom were that of servants and children of God.

Jesus said:

Matthew 20
25
But Jesus called them to him and said, "You know that the
rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great
men exercise authority over them.
26
It shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great
among you must be your servant,
27
and whoever would be first among you must be your slave;
28
even as the Son of man came not to be served but to serve,
and to give his life as a ransom for many.

The Word also tells us:

But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name,
13
8 who were born not by natural generation nor by human choice nor by a man's decision but of God.


Interestingly, enough when Jesus referred to his disciples he labeled them simply as 1. believers, 2. disciples, and 3. children of God and even friends

Lastly, my advice is that you continue to be balanced and temperate. I think that is why you have refused to lean to either extreme. You refuse to be a greasy gracer or a legalistic ritualistic traditionalist. You do have committed to not abuse God's grace, while keeping his commandments in love. You have separated yourself unto God, shunning the things of this world, but not to the extreme of living a dry religious existence. For this, I commend you.

Let Christ in you, define you. Find yourself in Him.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY

Thanks Dan for answering my question ,hope you stick around in case I have any more question!

"As the sugar hides in tea ,help me Lord to hide in Thee"