The Crux of the Pro-tithe Argument

[diakonos]

Nico,

Jesus is called The Great Shepherd. In Espanish He is called El Gran Pastor.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by diakonos

How many books have you sold?

Are you saying we should get into book sales? Lol. Looks like it has worked for some.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Nico,

Jesus is called The Great Shepherd. In Espanish He is called El Gran Pastor.

I think your getting confused with Pork.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Votive Soul, I have long believed that the anonymous men that you refer to as “super apostles” were some of the other apostles from the Jerusalem church. Maybe James, Peter, etc.. The one who actually followed Jesus during His earthly ministry. That’s speculation on my part, but anyway, the word “rather” that Paul uses in the passage indicates that they weren’t truly worthy of support. He doesn’t say “are not we as well?” But, the way I read it is as though “aren’t we rather” means aren’t we worthy instead of they?

1 Corinthians 9:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.

I think it's somewhere between what you've written above and what Esaias wrote in response.

As far as the "super-apostles" or, as the KJV has it, the "chiefest apostles", I have wondered the same thing, but if they were from Jerusalem, as I currently suppose, but can't prove, I do not think they were of the Twelve, but of a different number who claimed apostleship. If you note 2 Corinthians 11, Paul calls them ministers of Satan. Is that the Twelve? Or did Paul think that way about them? No way, in my book.

[votivesoul]

From: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pastor

1325–75; < Latin pāstor shepherd, literally, feeder, equivalent to pās-, base of pāscere to put to pasture, feed + -tor -tor; replacing Middle English pastour < Anglo-French

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I think it's somewhere between what you've written above and what Esaias wrote in response.

As far as the "super-apostles" or, as the KJV has it, the "chiefest apostles", I have wondered the same thing, but if they were from Jerusalem, as I currently suppose, but can't prove, I do not think they were of the Twelve, but of a different number who claimed apostleship. If you note 2 Corinthians 11, Paul calls them ministers of Satan. Is that the Twelve? Or did Paul think that way about them? No way, in my book.

One consideration is from Galatians 2:4-6, where Paul notes men who added nothing to him, but were in Jerusalem to spy out his liberty, and seemed to have some reputation with the church there, yet didn't have the authority to force Titus to be circumcised. I suspect these men, while not being the Twelve, are the "super-apostles" who later came to Corinth to up-end Paul's work there, causing him so much consternation.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968

I think your getting confused with Pork.

What?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What?

Yeah, me too.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I think it's somewhere between what you've written above and what Esaias wrote in response.

As far as the "super-apostles" or, as the KJV has it, the "chiefest apostles", I have wondered the same thing, but if they were from Jerusalem, as I currently suppose, but can't prove, I do not think they were of the Twelve, but of a different number who claimed apostleship. If you note 2 Corinthians 11, Paul calls them ministers of Satan. Is that the Twelve? Or did Paul think that way about them? No way, in my book.

For a while there was a higher critical view that Paul and the other apostles were at odds: the epistle of James was a polemic specifically directed against Paul, etc. Rev 2:3 and the denunciations in the letters to the 7 churches are polemics against Paul and his ministry team, etc.

Of course I think that's rubbish. But it does appear there were false apostles and heretical teachers running around in 1st century Christianity making money off the saints and promoting error and claiming unwarranted prerogatives and prestige for themselves.

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What?

Tacos Al Pastor

It’s a Spanish pork dish. Was making a joke, bad attempt