Psychiatry An Industry Of Death Full Length

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Also, please reconcile your above post with this verse:

1 John 2:19....These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us.

This is very hard to do, hard to digest, hard to reconcile when you believe that only the OP's are saved.

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

This is very hard to do, hard to digest, hard to reconcile when you believe that only the OP's are saved.

You would first have to identify who the writer is referring to by "they".

[houston]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I need to visit Florida, soon.

Originally Posted by houston

Road trip?

Originally Posted by houston

Well, nevermind.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Do tell.

...

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

I've been to those churches. I've personally witnessed what you are saying. I have preached against the exact thing. Too many churches focus (brag) on how many people were in the altar, were speaking in tongues, and were baptized in Jesus' name.

These people use this as a barometer as to how they are performing or "doing" as a church. It is a very slippery slope, especially in an environment that emphasizes as the foundation of their doctrines what the sinner must do first. Still, OP's are not the only ones that uses things like this as barometers.

Originally Posted by TK Burk

However, Jesus' five-fold ministries' focus is said to be on spiritually maturing the saints into productive members of Christ's body.

So many churches do not establish the mechanisms or means for this to happen in a measurable way. It's not unique to OP's but the vast majority of my experiences have been with the OP's or the A/G.

Originally Posted by TK Burk

I do like shouting services--but that kind of service can be stirred up by the music and fiery preaching.

I love these services and I think they are very valuable for encouragement, for measurable expressions of "Holy Dunamis" and for me personally, they serve as reminders and memories of what it is like to experience my relationship with God in such a dynamic way.

One more thing, I am convinced that these kinds of services where the Holy Spirit really is manifested have as their backdrop, people praying and living consecrated.

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Perfecting the saints takes time and discipleship. Too few have that kind of patience, and from that, we see immature saints that barely hang-on from one chandelier-swinging service to the next.

So many "modern" churches are trying to address this WITHOUT allowing room for the Holy Ghost to have free course in their services.

Originally Posted by TK Burk

But, with all that said, the ones who really want to grow in Christ will find a way. These are called "the remnant." They are the ones who will not allow the shallowness of another saint--or pastor--determine the depth of their relationship with God. They don't need hype and excitement and actually prefer the solitude of prayer where they can be alone at Jesus' feet.

I want and prefer both! I think a healthy church will have both.

Originally Posted by TK Burk

With all the test and trials a saint of God will go through, I guess any could be used as an excuse to leave one's faith. But I also believe it is during those times that one's straight and narrow walk is defined. How's that for "the faith the saves us is the faith that changes us"? Therefore, any who uses such things as an excuse to leave that path is really just looking for a way to leave.

That straight and narrow walk cannot be accomplished without the "faith that changes us..." I understand how you tied that in now!

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Faith is believing coupled with action. In fact, I am beginning to think that when people try to separate saving faith from repentance, they are trying to do something that the Bible does not do.

However, by separating the two, it supports the foundation of the OP view of salvation.

But we're not talking about separating "saving faith from repentance." The issue that started this if belief equates to repentance. I agree that belief may lead to repentance, but belief in and of itself is not repentance. That said, I agree with you that "Faith is believing coupled with action."

During the Old Testament the word “faith” was seen as the act of being faithful to a calling or need. During the New Testament the word “faith” was seen as the act of believing in a teaching and/or a teacher, and thereby becoming an obedient and faithful disciple.

Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The first occurrence of our English word “faith” in the Bible is translated in Exodus 17:12 as the word “steady.”

Exodus 17:12
But Moses’ hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun.

Exodus 17:12 is not the only passage where this word “emunah” is found. It is however the first occurrence of the word “faith” in the Bible. Concerning this type faith, the Bible teaches that the “just shall live by his faith.” That “faith” refers to emunah, for a man who lives for God does so by his “faithfulness” to God (see Habakkuk 2:4; Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38).

This type "faithfulness" answers the question of when and why Abraham received righteousness. It also explains why belief does not necessarily include repentance, for the thought of belief must include the action of faith or it does not equate to biblical salvation.

For more see:
WHAT IS FAITH
FAITH IS
BORN AGAIN BY FAITH

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

This is very hard to do, hard to digest, hard to reconcile when you believe that only the OP's are saved.

I don't believe that. I believe only those who love Jesus and obey His word are saved. You believe that too, right?

[Aquila]

If a church or pastor doesn't see the signs that a person needs psychical help, and doesn't help point them in the direction of getting the help they need, and that person harms themselves or others, they have blood on their hands. And, a case can me made in some situations that a church could have legal liability also.

I believe every church should have a directory of trusted charities and trusted counseling resources to turn to in the event that there are signs of someone needing help. With a little homework, a church can have excellent, Christian, resources to turn people to.

With so many vets coming home with significant problems, this would be wise.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

I don't believe that. I believe only those who love Jesus and obey His word are saved. You believe that too, right?

Yessir!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If a church or pastor doesn't see the signs that a person needs psychical help, and doesn't help point them in the direction of getting the help they need, and that person harms themselves or others, they have blood on their hands. And, a case can me made in some situations that a church could have legal liability also.

I believe every church should have a directory of trusted charities and trusted counseling resources to turn to in the event that there are signs of someone needing help. With a little homework, a church can have excellent, Christian, resources to turn people to.

With so many vets coming home with significant problems, this would be wise.

Thanks for trying to get this thread back on subject!

[Bill E Goat]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If a church or pastor doesn't see the signs that a person needs psychical help, and doesn't help point them in the direction of getting the help they need, and that person harms themselves or others, they have blood on their hands. And, a case can me made in some situations that a church could have legal liability also.

I believe every church should have a directory of trusted charities and trusted counseling resources to turn to in the event that there are signs of someone needing help. With a little homework, a church can have excellent, Christian, resources to turn people to.

With so many vets coming home with significant problems, this would be wise.

Says the person who does not attend a church.