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  #281  
Old 02-07-2015, 07:03 PM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

I am fine with this explanation....



https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...fmejg74yraRtbw


Question: "What is the Tribulation? How do we know the Tribulation will last seven years?"

Answer: The tribulation is a future seven-year period of time when God will finish His discipline of Israel and finalize His judgment of the unbelieving world. The church, made up of all who have trusted in the person and work of the Lord Jesus to save them from being punished for sin, will not be present during the tribulation. The church will be removed from the earth in an event known as the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). The church is saved from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 5:9). Throughout Scripture, the tribulation is referred to by other names such as the Day of the Lord (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6-9; Joel 1:15; 2:1-31; 3:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2); trouble or tribulation (Deuteronomy 4:30; Zephaniah 1:1); the great tribulation, which refers to the more intense second half of the seven-year period (Matthew 24:21); time or day of trouble (Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:15); time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7).

An understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary in order to understand the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel's people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology (future things/events), have the above understanding of Daniel's 70 sevens.

With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24: “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” This final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin.

Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights of the seven-year tribulation period: “He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.” The person of whom this verse speaks is the person Jesus calls the “abomination that causes desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and is called “the beast” in Revelation 13. Daniel 9:27 says that the beast will make a covenant for seven years, but in the middle of this week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation), he will break the covenant, putting a stop to sacrifice. Revelation 13 explains that the beast will place an image of himself in the temple and require the world to worship him. Revelation 13:5 says that this will go on for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Since Daniel 9:27 says that this will happen in the middle of the week, and Revelation 13:5 says that the beast will do this for a period of 42 months, it is easy to see that the total length of time is 84 months or seven years. Also see Daniel 7:25, where the “time, times, and half a time” (time=1 year; times=2 years; half a time=1/2 year; total of 3 1/2 years) also refers to “great tribulation,” the last half of the seven-year tribulation period when the beast will be in power.

For further references about the tribulation, see Revelation 11:2-3, which speaks of 1260 days and 42 months, and Daniel 12:11-12, which speaks of 1290 days and 1335 days. These days have a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation. The additional days in Daniel 12 may include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ's millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).

In summary, the Tribulation is the 7-year time period in the end times in which humanity's decadence and depravity will reach its fullness, with God judging accordingly.


Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/tribulat...#ixzz3R7Bs8isV
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  #282  
Old 02-07-2015, 08:02 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
The fact is that anyone who believes in a future "7 year" tribulation period gets it from the gap whether they see the connection or got it from someone else who did. No where else. Yes, it's that pivotal. If you never stated a position on the 70 weeks that is of no consequence if you believe there is a future 7 year trib period. You see, brother, the future 7 year trib period theory CAME FROM the gap theory. Where else is a future 7 year period stemmed from? So, the real question is do you believe in a seven year future trib period. If so, where did you get it from? If you do believe in it, but never made a point about the 70 weeks issue, then you got it from someone who does believe the 70 weeks issue. Either way it is based upon the gap theory.

The entire, and I mean ENTIRE, future trib belief is based upon this gap theory. It is pivotal for you to nail your conclusions down about the 70th week. It is THE KEY FACTOR in the entire futurist position. Once that is known to have no gap, then the whole house of cards of futurism falls down.

You asked me where I got the 3.5 years span of Christ's ministry. Christ covered three Passovers in the gospels. And it is intrinsically linked to the first 3.5 years of Daniel's 70th week. Jesus would come after 69 weeks. And it's so significant because it is THE ONLY TIMEFRAME explicitly laid out in precise years.

Anyone who studies the issue could never believe in a gap theory except the person whose imagination went wild and concocted it. The weeks are focused around the cross, as everything int he bible should, anyway.

So, for you to have held and proclaimed such a strong stance on POST TRIB which circles around the tribulation period being future, and yet have not even came to a conclusion on the 70 weeks, is like preaching Christ and not making a conclusion on the cross. Really.

I know you enough-- not much -- to say you can come to a conclusion. And you should realize it is absolutely vital.

My thoughts, anyway.*
Maybe its pointless to discuss the matter with you. I told you I have never said I believe in a gap theory. Nor a 7 year tribulation. You are now telling me how I arrive at my conclusions in the face of what I said regardless.

Now where is the 490 year timeline? Starting from the beginning then the end? Dates please if I am to take it seriously. How would it hurt me to see such a timeline? I WANT to see it.

I dont know how it would adversly affect what I presently believe. But for truths sake I would love to see the 490 years laid out in a factual way.
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  #283  
Old 02-07-2015, 08:27 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

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Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Maybe its pointless to discuss the matter with you. I told you I have never said I believe in a gap theory. Nor a 7 year tribulation. You are now telling me how I arrive at my conclusions in the face of what I said regardless.
I kept saying IF YOU BELIEVE.... hypothetical.

I did not notice you mention you did not believe in a seven year tribulation, though. Sorry. Many apologies. But, I still said "IF..."

Quote:
Now where is the 490 year timeline? Starting from the beginning then the end? Dates please if I am to take it seriously. How would it hurt me to see such a timeline? I WANT to see it.
Simple. From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem put forth by Cyrus until Jesus came and began ministering was 483 years. And from the time of His ministry's start to the cross, 3.5 years and 3.5 years after that was the end. Gentiles came into the church around then.

That's why the start of Christ's ministry had him say THIS DAY the scripture is fulfilled in their ears. The Spirit anointed Him to preach.
Quote:
I dont know how it would adversly affect what I presently believe. But for truths sake I would love to see the 490 years laid out in a factual way.
It is a fascinating study. But you would not believe how this timeline has been attacked. After all, it's the ONLY timeline provided in scripture. And this is why I believe Christ said many many false Christ's would arise in their day, for imagine a false prophet knowing the timeframe and plotting to convince everyone he was the true Christ.

False Messiahs were rampant then because everyone knew the timeline from Daniel for the Messiah to come.

So, it only stands to reason this issue is harshly attacked. And the weird thing is that there's a HUGE controversy about the timing of the decree and which decree was the pertinent one!

But if you do not believe in a seven year period, what do you believe? And if you don't, this may not apply to you.
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  #284  
Old 02-07-2015, 09:27 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

http://www.messianics.us/teaching/ar...nty-weeks.html
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  #285  
Old 02-07-2015, 09:32 PM
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Esaias Esaias is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Another take:

http://truthinhistory.org/the-sevent...-daniel-2.html
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  #286  
Old 02-07-2015, 10:01 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

It's always good to read and hear various views.
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  #287  
Old 02-07-2015, 11:22 PM
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Evang.Benincasa Evang.Benincasa is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

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Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
It's always good to read and hear various views.
Yes indeed.
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  #288  
Old 02-08-2015, 10:51 AM
thephnxman thephnxman is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume View Post
I kept saying IF YOU BELIEVE.... hypothetical.
I did not notice you mention you did not believe in a seven year tribulation, though. Sorry. Many apologies. But, I still said "IF..."
Simple. From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem put forth by Cyrus until Jesus came and began ministering was 483 years. And from the time of His ministry's start to the cross, 3.5 years and 3.5 years after that was the end. Gentiles came into the church around then.
That's why the start of Christ's ministry had him say THIS DAY the scripture is fulfilled in their ears. The Spirit anointed Him to preach.
It is a fascinating study. But you would not believe how this timeline has been attacked. After all, it's the ONLY timeline provided in scripture. And this is why I believe Christ said many many false Christ's would arise in their day, for imagine a false prophet knowing the timeframe and plotting to convince everyone he was the true Christ.
False Messiahs were rampant then because everyone knew the timeline from Daniel for the Messiah to come.
So, it only stands to reason this issue is harshly attacked. And the weird thing is that there's a HUGE controversy about the timing of the decree and which decree was the pertinent one!
But if you do not believe in a seven year period, what do you believe? And if you don't, this may not apply to you.
Beloved, if you are not a "FULL" preterist but believe in a coming judgment,
etc., then my guess is that you are a "partial" futurist/preterist, right?
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  #289  
Old 02-08-2015, 12:38 PM
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mfblume mfblume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thephnxman View Post

Beloved, if you are not a "FULL" preterist but believe in a coming judgment,
etc., then my guess is that you are a "partial" futurist/preterist, right?
Right.
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  #290  
Old 02-08-2015, 06:26 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Why I Am A Futurist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias View Post
Actually he could come back today. We all might be wrong in our understanding.
Well yes we could all be wrong about it. And we could all be wrong about Acts 2:38. And we could be wrong about Oneness. So on and so forth.

I will stick with what Paul said:


Let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come unless there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition. 2 Thess 2:3
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