I'm being bewitched.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

This "doctor" says Moses is the probable writer as well...



http://www.biblicaltraining.org/old-...douglas-stuart

ibid.

Again, no offense but you'd have to completely trash the Bible as the Word of God, shave your head and run through the street shouting, "I'm Coo-Coo for Coco-Puffs!" to make that case.

I don't know your "DR." here, but his "Recommended Reading List" has D.A. Carson, Gordon Fee, the Yale Anchor Bible Dictionary (E. A. Speiser handled most of the Genesis material there). NONE of these guys will assert that Moses "wrote the Pentateuch."

Moses gave us the Law, not the Pentateuch.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Flutecrafter

First off, yes, the Pentateuch was written by Moses.
Secondly, even if your theory was true, it would also prove my point anyway.


So you hold that the Book of Exodus is in error, then?

Let me see... I SAID that "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost..." but all you HEARD was that I disagreed with your fraudulent "magick."

You then conclude that I must think that the Book of Exodus is in error.

No Mark. YOU ARE IN ERROR. Exodus is inspired by God. Your opinions about the Bible are wrong but the Bible itself is true.

This is what I meant about your overwhelming ego. You just can't seem to see the difference between what's "YOU" and what's "GOD."

You are not God, Mark. Your opinions are not inspired.

Originally Posted by Flutecrafter

Does the depths of your foolishness know no bounds, Pel?
First off, you lie repeatedly about what I believe.... (that is really what you
are doing when you attribute things to people that they didn't say so that
you can bolster an argument that you are putting forth)

During all of this you ask me to engage in sin multiple times for your entertainment.

No Mark, these are YOUR LIES. I merely asked you to "prove it" (that someone - anyone - could control the weather, move inanimate objects, control animals, etc.). You made some extraordinary claims, I merely asked for proof (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

Lacking any proof whatsoever for you claims, you fell into the role of playing "victim." ("pel wants me to sin and pull a rabbit out of my hat!"). No, I merely asked you to substantiate your claims. Your constant whining tells us all what you already know to be true in your heart.

Originally Posted by Flutecrafter

You wish to deny what is written in Exodus is magik, then you want to know
why I don't use magik (a sin) for God using that same passage... as your
basis.

I never asked you "Why don't you use 'magick?'" I already know the answer. It doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Flutecrafter

Since you obviously know nothing at all about this subject, I reckon I should
let you know a few points:
I do not engage in magik anymore because God says not to do so.
Both in His word and to me personally.
You have now stated that Aaron used magik in the showdown he had with
the mages of Egypt, lending an extra magnitude of apparent shallowness to
your understanding of God's word as well as the workings of the spiritual realm.
Those Holy men of God... including Aaron and Moses, were granted power
from our Lord to operate in a supernatural capacity. This is not the same
as those working magik. (they have an altogether different source for the
power they are using)


Mark
Coracle Ministries

Nice looking web site. Free TIP: "And His offer of Salvation." wouldn't be considered a sentence in most secondary English classes.

And, I never said "Aaron used magick..." What I said was that the Sopherim wrote this account around 1,000 years after the lives of Moses and Aaron. Their point in writing this was to make a polemic argument concerning God's covenant with His people. They wanted to provide the history and framework of that covenant. They wanted to "contextualize" the covenant - See the list of Scriptures that I have already provided and follow the events of the OT from Genesis through Ezra 9 and Nehemiah 9.

"Unto this day..." Unto what day? Why does the OT from Genesis through Nehemiah keep saying that there's stuff that can be seen "Unto this day?" Why does it mention social and religious customs that are in practice "unto this day?"

And... just what "day" were they referring to? I think you've skipped over some rather important thesis statements in the Bible.

Instead of blowing your top and making a rather poor presentation of your ministries here, why don't you settle down and try again (this is my second olive branch). I simply called the efficacy of people putting "spells" and "hexes" on other into question to bolster the confidence of a fellow poster on this board. You took that and went ballistic.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by houston

Heh... I thought Joshua finished the Pent. How did Moses write of his own death after the fact?

How did Joshua (or Moses for that matter) know that the Tribe of Dan (Joshua 19:40) would move from their designated lot in the Book of Joshua up to the far northern reaches of Israel? See Genesis 14:14.

Dan didn't make that move until the end of the Book of Judges - long, long after Joshua had died.

Read the Bible folks. Just sit down and read the book. Notice the way Deuteronomy ends and Joshua picks right up? Same thing with Judges and on through to Nehemiah (with the exception of the Book of Ruth*).

* The Book of Ruth was originally placed in the collection of "Writings" along with Psalms, Proverbs and etc. in the Jewish canon. Saint Jerome and then others moved it up into the Historical Books.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

That appendix was obviously written by someone else. But the majority of the text for the Pentateuch is understood to have been written by Moses. Unless Pel has interesting sources that might convince me otherwise.

I've already provided a rather lengthy list of Scriptures. I prefer to use the Bible to "interpret" the Bible. Just read the book.

As far as "other sources" - there are many good ones. Mizzie's link had these for "Recommended Reading:"

- - - - - - - - - - -

The Old Testament New Bible Commentary: 21st Century Edition, D. A. Carson, et. al. eds.

How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth, Gordon Fee & Douglas Stuart

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Eerdmans Publishing Co.

Zondervan Pictorial Bible Encyclopedia, Zondervan

Anchor Bible Dictionary, Yale University Press New Bible Dictionary, Intervarsity Press

http://www.biblicaltraining.org/old-...douglas-stuart

- - - - - - - - - - -

I don't know Douglas Stuart off the top of my head except as a collaborator with Gordon Fee and Mizpeh seemed to be of the opinion that he supported the Fundamentalist idea that "Moses wrote the Pentateuch." This list however will give you a different outlook (with the exception of the ISBE - it's all over the place).

The Anchor Bible Dictionary is almost a "Required" tool. It's up to date, readable, thorough and reverential toward people of faith.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by houston

Yeah... and DAvid gets credit for all of the Psalms.

TIC? It's sort of ironic as well.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Flutecrafter

addressed.
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...135#post991135

Uh, no. You didn't address his question at all.

Admin: We need a "Tap Dance" emoticon.

... and no, I never tried to encourage you to do anything except to prove your assertions here. You simply can't do that, can you?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Magic is a lot like prayer. Accept you don't petition a deity, you simply envision what you desire along with a form of "spell". For example, with candel magic, one envisions what they desire to see take place, they then burn a candel corresponding to what type of request they're making. Sometimes they burn a "paper" with the request written on it. Sometimes the "dress" the candel by anointing it with oil. Sometimes certain oils or herbs are mixed in the wax. Sometimes they burn their requests during certain phases of the moon, etc.

Also there is the "textbook" practitioner who sticks closely with previously written "spells" and "chants", etc. Then you have the "free style" practitioner that doesn't always do things by the "spell books". For example, in candel magic above, these might see nothing wrong with using a scented Yankee candel, while the text book practitioner creates their own using the oils and herbs "according to the book", etc.

To ask a practitioner to simply "perform" would be like someone asking you to pray for a miracle on the spot.

You seem to be making excuses for them here, Aquila. Why can't anyone provide any proof that this "magick" is real?

Okay, let's say that they need some time to get their motors running, whatever; why can't anyone provide any proof that "magick" is real?

Prove your assertions guys. Prove it.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Flutecrafter

Why?
He gets plenty of us as it is.

But just to turn it around:
Wouldn't it be in God's best interest to have the Apostolics working miracles
in public to prove that God has more power than Satan, or to lead others away
from Satan?

That is to Pelathias as well, since he challenged someone to come to the hospital
and work healing magik. Why isn't he raising the dead and healing the sick
on these visits, rather than asking someone to work magik on their behalf?

Are you coadie on crack? You just completely invent things and run off at the mouth. Then, when someone calls you on it, you play the "victim card" and whine.

My various "challenges" are directed right at people who have made assertions that they can perform extraordinary feats. I just buried a baby that had barely made it past three months of age. I remember the way back to that children's hospital. If anyone has a bona fide "gift" - from whatever "source," and you think you can do some good - then put up or shut up.

Originally Posted by Flutecrafter

Seroiusly, y'all... your machinations to get around God's word on the subject
seems a little extreme.

Timmy: thanks for the voice of logic and reason. It is appreciated.

jfrog, if God's word is not enough for you, then you are out of luck as I will
not be giving out anymore details for you atm.

mark

He has no "details" frogger. He's peddling a product. He doesn't want you to kick the tires or ask to see the "CarFax." He just expects you take his word on faith and and to "give" liberally.

[Flutecrafter]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Uh, no. You didn't address his question at all.

Admin: We need a "Tap Dance" emoticon.

... and no, I never tried to encourage you to do anything except to prove your assertions here. You simply can't do that, can you?

you know, it would be really great if you could refrain from lying for a few days.
Of course, for that to happen you would probably have to stop typing.

He asked for other texts, I provided them, hence I addressed the question.

And you did indeed challenge me to use magik, more than once.

[Flutecrafter]

Originally Posted by pelathais

He has no "details" frogger. He's peddling a product. He doesn't want you to kick the tires or ask to see the "CarFax." He just expects you take his word on faith and and to "give" liberally.

quite the contrary, I have no desire for you to take my word on anything,
which is why I am providing God's word.