Apostolic Litumus Test: Do you affirm - Yes or no?

[SDG]

The revisionism ... sanitizing ... censorship and ostracizing done by 3 steppers today about our diverse Oneness heritage and inclusion w/ the entire Body Christ is in my mind proof positive that TRUTH DOES NOT MATTER to many of them ...

Just being right.

It's farcical to hear neo-con Oneness believers come on here and tell us about old landmarks and how uniform our forefathers were ... and yet TRUTH escapes their lips and keyboards.

Many of them I believe are just lacking the funding to totally isolating themselves behind literal walls and barbed wire.

One big happy campground for the chosen ...

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

The revisionism ... sanitizing ... censorship and ostracizing done by 3 steppers today about our diverse Oneness heritage and inclusion w/ the entire Body Christ is in my mind proof positive that TRUTH DOES NOT MATTER to many of them ...

Just being right.

It's farcical to hear neo-con Oneness believers come on here and tell us about old landmarks and how uniform our forefathers were ... and yet TRUTH escapes their lips and keyboards.

Many of them I believe are just lacking the funding to totally isolating themselves behind literal walls and barbed wire.

The rewriting doesn't just include views on salvation but on so called standards as well. Some of the early adherents to the Oneness message were more liberal in their use of jewelry than the UC crowd is today.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

The point of quoting him was not to get his view but to show that the view that one would go to hell if not baptized in Jesus name was not the majority view of the PCI.

Yes, both Loren Yadon and Crownover are alive.

OK. Gotcha. He's saying that it was a minority viewpoint among the PCI folks. Have you got anything from some PCI folks that was documented from back during the time when the merger took place? I know that there was a split that took place from the AOG. Unless I am reading all this wrong, this Urshan fellow was part of that original group that was basically shown the door by the AOG. Was Haywood also part of that group and Yadon and Crownover's relatives too, or did they come onto the scene after Urshan split from the AOG? This all seems so complicated! lol Maybe someone needs to draw up some sort of organizational chart showing who's who, when they came on the scene, and what role they played in the initial organization of the UPCI.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Rico

OK. Gotcha. He's saying that it was a minority viewpoint among the PCI folks. Have you got anything from some PCI folks that was documented from back during the time when the merger took place? I know that there was a split that took place from the AOG. Unless I am reading all this wrong, this Urshan fellow was part of that original group that was basically shown the door by the AOG. Was Haywood also part of that group and Yadon and Crownover's relatives too, or did they come into the scene after Urshan split from the AOG? This all seems to complicated! lol Maybe someone needs to draw up some sort of organizational chart showing who's who, when they came on the scene, and what role they played in the initial organization of the UPCI.

I am going from memory here so if I get some of it a little off then someone can correct me. Urshan and Haywood were first generation Oneness. C.H. Yadon was part of the merger that created the UPC. Crownover's Father came into Oneness under a PCI minister. C.H. Yadon left the UPC in 1992 and has since passed away, his leaving was a result of his feeling that the PCI view was not being tolerated. The Yadon's were very influential in the UPC for many years particularly in the Pacific Northwest. My parents sat under Bud Yadon when I was a wee little lad.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I am going from memory here so if I get some of it a little off then someone can correct me. Urshan and Haywood were first generation Oneness. C.H. Yadon was part of the merger that created the UPC. Crownover's Father came into Oneness under a PCI minister. C.H. Yadon left the UPC in 1992 and has since passed away, his leaving was a result of his feeling that the PCI view was not being tolerated. The Yadon's were very influential in the UPC for many years particularly in the Pacific Northwest. My parents sat under Bud Yadon when I was a wee little lad.

Was it hard breathe sitting under him? lol

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Was it hard breathe sitting under him? lol

ahhh a wise guy ehh?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

The rewriting doesn't just include views on salvation but on so called standards as well. Some of the early adherents to the Oneness message were more liberal in their use of jewelry than the UC crowd is today.

Yes they were. I know Sis. Goss had something to say in "The Winds of God" regarding that.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I am going from memory here so if I get some of it a little off then someone can correct me. Urshan and Haywood were first generation Oneness. C.H. Yadon was part of the merger that created the UPC. Crownover's Father came into Oneness under a PCI minister. C.H. Yadon left the UPC in 1992 and has since passed away, his leaving was a result of his feeling that the PCI view was not being tolerated. The Yadon's were very influential in the UPC for many years particularly in the Pacific Northwest. My parents sat under Bud Yadon when I was a wee little lad.

I see. I looked up GT Haywood and wikipedia says the UPC was actually a split off of the PAW, as was the AOG. According to the article, the split that became the AOG was over baptism in Jesus name and the split that became the UPC was caused by segregation issues. Of course, the wikipedia article could have its facts wrong. I always thought the AOG was around for a lot longer than any of the oneness groups, but I've never really studied it out. Maybe I will dig into all this a little deeper and come up with some sort of chart or something that would show how we all got here (one steppers, three steppers, yes baptism, no baptism, tongues as initial evidence, etc.) From what I can tell it ALL started back at Azusa Street. Well, at least our modern versions anyway.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Rico

I see. I looked up GT Haywood and wikipedia says the UPC was actually a split off of the PAW, as was the AOG. According to the article, the split that became the AOG was over baptism in Jesus name and the split that became the UPC was caused by segregation issues. Of course, the wikipedia article could have its facts wrong. I always thought the AOG was around for a lot longer than any of the oneness groups, but I've never really studied it out. Maybe I will dig into all this a little deeper and come up with some sort of chart or something that would show how we all got here (one steppers, three steppers, yes baptism, no baptism, tongues as initial evidence, etc.) From what I can tell it ALL started back at Azusa Street. Well, at least our modern versions anyway.

Ooops! I got part of this wrong. Actually, it says the AOG was a split off the COGIC. My bad.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

This one also touches on the question about John's baptism being "for the remission of sins." The Bible clearly and repeatedly states that John's was a "baptism of repentance for the remission of sins..." (Mark 1:4; Luke 1:77 and Luke 3:3).

Those who believed John's preaching were baptized by immersion in water after confessing their sins. No matter how you cut it believers were BAPTIZED for the remissiom of sins. Remission is not said to happen solely when they confessed their sins or at the moment they believed the words of John the Baptist. Is this what you've been saying all along?

What do yo think Jesus meant by "all the prophets and the law prophesied until John"? Does that mean there is an interim period between the testaments where in which being a Jew was not a prereq to salvation and neither was believing the gospel and being born again?

Matt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

How was it possible for the people to receive "the remission of sins" in John's baptism if Jesus had not yet been crucified? Paul tells us how in Acts 19:4. If the people believed on the One who was to follow John, then they received remission of sins - before Calvary. The Bible cl;early states that they did.

Do you believe it was contingent upon Christ's death, burial, and resurrection since they had to believe on the One who was to come? And once they believed on Christ like the Ephesus disciples why were they rebaptized?

This points out emphatically, the importance of of faith in baptism. I am personally at a loss as to why Apostolic churches are so timid about the the issue of faith in baptism. When pressed about it they'll say something in an embarassed tone. But why don't we lead with faith? Why isn't faith in Jesus Christ the foundational topic in every Bible study and Sunday School lesson on baptism? Why?

I'm confused why you think there is no faith by the believer or the one who baptizes the person at baptism? Faith IMO is madatory for a Christian their entire walk with God not just at the beginning, nor just at baptism, not just to receive the Spirit but always. We walk by faith and we live by faith.

Why don't we tell folk outright - it doesn't matter who helps you into the water, it doesn't matter if they mess it all up or forget a line or miss a beat - what matters is your own personal faith in Jesus Christ.

I thought it was a given.

"upon confession of your faith in Jesus Christ" is how my pastor begins a baptism.