The Reason Some Apostolics Are Concerned: The Results of Erased Lines

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

I wasn't thinking of PP... I was thinking of all the wizened, esteemed men of God, who through their actions believe that being anti-television is more important than anything else in their identity... including oneness and speaking in tongues...

I don't recall any resolution about oneness or speaking in tongues... just the one about television... so if you read between the lines, it is more important to them than the things that they STILL have in common with the organization.

At the risk of being associated with you (TIC), I would have to agree that you make a valid argument.

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

I wasn't thinking of PP... I was thinking of all the wizened, esteemed men of God, who through their actions believe that being anti-television is more important than anything else in their identity... including oneness and speaking in tongues...

I don't recall any resolution about oneness or speaking in tongues... just the one about television... so if you read between the lines, it is more important to them than the things that they STILL have in common with the organization.

In 29 years of Apostolic ministry I've never met ONE person such as you describe.

As for the subject of the thread... I started it. Had nothing to do with television except that I spoke about all the talk about UPC, PAW, Resolution 4 and a mass of other things.

The premise of this thread was, is and should have remained that there are situations - such as what we just viewed with the PAW - that cause concern for Apostolics. Those concerned with the direction of the movement as a whole don't want to end up someday digressing to the point of voting to accept trinitarians.

Frankly, those that can't see that it's not a TV issue - but a conglomerate of various issues - evidently don't want to see it.

Do you deny that the catalyst for your title, "the reason some Apostolics are concerned" has to do with Resolution 4? Or that the "Erased line" has anything to do with the UPC changing their stance on television? (even given that the subject in the original post is the PAW... it is being used as an example as to what may happen now that a "certain" line has been erased.

[RevDWW]

The foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus being the Chief Corner Stone is firm and unmovable. If you are built on it you should not be shaking. If walls and doors and window are added to the foundation that don't meet the owners specs then watch out, cause something is liable to come loose and fall.

Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire

Could it be because our lines have been drawn in the sand of time instead of etched in The Stone of eternity?

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

Do you deny that the catalyst for your title, "the reason some Apostolics are concerned" has to do with Resolution 4? Or that the "Erased line" has anything to do with the UPC changing their stance on television?

A) "The reason some Apostolics are concerned" = Erase enough lines and this is where we'll end up.

B) "The results of Erased Lines" = PAW has been erasing lines for years and now it's caught up with them.

The TV issue was settled for me LONG before Resolution 4 and - again - it seems to be FAR more important for everyone else than it does some of us that aren't buying into the whole TV deal.

FACT: I didn't say "The reason some UPC people are concerned". It was the UPC and the UPC only that had a resolution 4 at their conference. I said "The Reason that Some Apostolics are Concerned."

I probably preach as much out of the UPC as I do in the UPC. I know Apostolics who are...
* Independant
* UPC
* ALJC
* PAW
* COOLJC
... and various other organizations that are concerned with the direction of the Apostolic movement. So far as I know the TV issue affected only the UPC.

Hate to disappoint everyone but, no, the impetus for this thread was not another spinoff of the TV issue.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

Hate to disappoint everyone but, no, the impetus for this thread was not another spinoff of the TV issue.

And that's not a bad thang, either!

Do you think that getting back to the principals of Christ and His doctrine, sans what some perceive as a harshness about standards is what is in order?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Steadfast

A) "The reason some Apostolics are concerned" = Erase enough lines and this is where we'll end up.

B) "The results of Erased Lines" = PAW has been erasing lines for years and now it's caught up with them.

The TV issue was settled for me LONG before Resolution 4 and - again - it seems to be FAR more important for everyone else than it does some of us that aren't buying into the whole TV deal.

FACT: I didn't say "The reason some UPC people are concerned". It was the UPC and the UPC only that had a resolution 4 at their conference. I said "The Reason that Some Apostolics are Concerned."

I probably preach as much out of the UPC as I do in the UPC. I know Apostolics who are...
* Independant
* UPC
* ALJC
* PAW
* COOLJC
... and various other organizations that are concerned with the direction of the Apostolic movement. So far as I know the TV issue affected only the UPC.

Hate to disappoint everyone but, no, the impetus for this thread was not another spinoff of the TV issue.

Hmm... yet you must use "TV" terminology to express that? j/k

What do you think of the idea that the PAW is actually moving back toward where they came from? They started out as Trinirarian Pentecostals, became OP's who freely and openly fellowshipped with Trintitarian brethren; but then slowly became isolated from "Christendom" as a whole.

Some regret that isolation today and want to move things back to the way it was in GT Haywood's day. How is that "erasing lines," so to speak? The lines being erased are newer innovations.

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Hmm... yet you must use "TV" terminology to express that? j/k

What do you think of the idea that the PAW is actually moving back toward where they came from? They started out as Trinirarian Pentecostals, became OP's who freely and openly fellowshipped with Trintitarian brethren; but then slowly became isolated from "Christendom" as a whole.

Some regret that isolation today and want to move things back to the way it was in GT Haywood's day. How is that "erasing lines," so to speak? The lines being erased are newer innovations.

In the days of Bishop Haywood they were coming into truth. It had to be hard for them to break away form life long friends to follow the revelation God had given them. For years that were a oneness org. They have preached the truth of the oneness for decades and for them to return to the trinity movement for fellowship makes no sense. Why return and fellowship with the darkness you have been brought out of?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

In the days of Bishop Haywood they were coming into truth. It had to be hard for them to break away form life long friends to follow the revelation God had given them. For years that were a oneness org. They have preached the truth of the oneness for decades and for them to return to the trinity movement for fellowship makes no sense. Why return and fellowship with the darkness you have been brought out of?

There is some darkness there (really a whole lot, the bigger the picture is that you're looking at); but there is also a lot of light. As evidence I present the assistant pastor of a small Trinitarian Pentecostal missions work set up in a former tin shop in Indianapolis; Garfield T. Haywood.

There are many independent groups that would call themselves "Trinitarian" if you asked them but whose doctrinal statements and preaching about Jesus Christ are nearly indistinguishable from most Oneness groups. We're hurting ourselves (and them!) by isolating ourselves and always attacking. In my teens I attended a large independent "Full Gospel" church in an area where the nearest UPC church was 50 miles away. They sounded just like the UPC church where I had been baptized when it came to their Christology and everything else except some of the holiness issues.

The only time I ever heard anything about the Trinity was in my last visit there at the end of the summer when this notorius goofball that hung around decided to try and make trouble for me. He went to the College and Careers Sunday School teacher and badgered him into mentioning something about the Trinity. The best the SS teacher could offer was an oblique statement that "the Father didn't die on the cross..." Well, of course He didn't.

The teacher just could not find anything that was wrong with what I believed and more importantly, he couldn't find anything that his church taught that was opposed to anything that I had shared all summer long. We were all simply edifying the same Jesus Christ, at least as far as he could tell.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Hey Rico........... keep this in mind during the Christmas season....

:santa :holiday07

I remember it every year while trying to get y'all to see how wrong celebrating pagan holidays is!