KH believes the Light Doctrine??

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Sam

So, here I am, a Jesus' Name Pentecostal going to a Trinity Pentecostal church. How do I do that? Well, for one thing I am what we call a "one-stepper" here on the forum so, in my opinion, anyone who has taken that "one step" of faith in Jesus Christ is saved and is my brother or sister. As far as baptism, well, I believe that baptism should be only for a repentant believer, should be by immersion, and the name of Jesus should be mentioned, but I realize not all Christians believe that. I can accept some of my brothers and sisters who have been sprinkled, or who have had water poured on their heads three times, or who have been immersed in the FS&HG formula, or who have been baptized in Jesus' name with or without the titles of Lord and/or Christ added. I attend a local church and a couple prayer meetings in other churches where folks have been baptized in the Spirit (and I believe they have been baptized in the REAL Holy Ghost) so I am around folks who speak with tongues. My personal belief is that hair length, sleeve length, clothing styles, radio, tv, internet and a host of other stuff like that are of secondary importance and are a matter of personal opinion and conviction so I stay out of discussions like that. I doubt if many trinitarians really believe in "three gods." We all commonly believe in one God who has revealed Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and we leave it at that.
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With due respect to you Sam- you are one of the boards better members. You are not a Jesus-name Pentecostal. If you were, you would have issues with the FS&HG baptism.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

With due respect to you Sam- you are one of the boards better members. You are not a Jesus-name Pentecostal. If you were, you would not have issues with the FS&HG baptism.

You mean he WOULD have issues with FS&HG baptism?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

You mean he WOULD have issues with FS&HG baptism?

Thanks, edited.

If you don't believe in One God baptism, you may as well believe in the Mormon baptism for the dead as well.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

With due respect to you Sam- you are one of the boards better members. You are not a Jesus-name Pentecostal. If you were, you would not have issues with the FS&HG baptism.

Thanks, BOOM.
I consider myself a Jesus' Name Pentecostal because:

1. I'm Pentecostal because I have received the Holy Ghost Baptism as many of the members of the first century church did in Acts chapter 2.

2. I'm Jesus' name because I believe that we are authorized by Jesus to use His name as we:
pray
heal the sick,
cast out demons,
baptize

To borrow someone else's statement of faith, this seems to summarize what I believe:

... in one God, revealed as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

... that our Lord Jesus Christ was begotten, not created, very God of very God, truly God, truly Man. He was born of the Virgin Mary, lived a sinless life, died a vicarious and atoning death for the sins of the world, was resurrected bodily for our justification, and now reigns in glory until all things be put under His feet.

... in the absolute inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, given by the Holy Spirit without error, as He moved upon holy men of old. Furthermore, ... that the church has no authority to establish doctrine or practice contrary to these same Scriptures, which were subsequently accepted as canon by the early Christian Church.

... that man was made in the image of God and is the crown of creation. He is now, by reason of the fall, spiritually depraved and alienated from His Creator. Apart from God's grace he has no ability to attain to his high calling.

... that justification is by grace through faith in our Lord's sacrifice on Calvary.

... that all of God's people are to be buried with Christ in the waters of baptism, subsequent to conversion. While we freely embrace those of contrary opinion, we feel that this rite is scripturally administered "in the name of the Lord Jesus."

... that the Holy Spirit indwells all believers, conforming them to the image of Jesus Christ.

... that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is an enduement of powers subsequent to conversion, given by God to anoint the believer for sanctification and evangelism. It is our understanding that the supernatural charisms of the Holy Spirit are active within the body of Christ until the coming of the Lord. Furthermore, ... the development of these charismatic gifts ought to be encouraged under the guidance of local church authorities.

... in the Holy Christian Church, imperfectly represented on Earth by the various Christian institutions. Her unity is spiritual, her culture diverse and transitional, her mission eternal.

... that the calling of Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher are functional within the Body of Christ until the Lord's return. Furthermore, these ministries are gifts to the church for the purpose of equipping the saints for the work of ministry, that the Body of Christ be edified.

... the identity of the Body of Christ on the Earth is primarily perceived through the local church. While encouraging the voluntary association of local churches, and recognizing the need of consensus on matters of fundamental doctrine and conduct, we strongly confess the local church to be sovereign and autonomous.

... in the right of local churches and ministries to form temporal institutions to assist them in carrying out the work of God. At the same time, we reject sectarianism and divisiveness as great evils.

... in the priesthood of the believer. That is to say all people born of God have equal status before, and direct access to their Lord.

... in the spiritual unity of all who are born of God. We confess even those with whom we disagree, those who do not confess us, and others whom we exclude because of our unwillful ignorance.

... that those who are called by the name of Christ should depart from iniquity. Understanding that salvation from the penalty of sin only begins the process of redemption, we acknowledge that one work of the Holy Spirit is to create in us the character of Christ.

... in the literal second coming of our Lord, the literal rule of Christ upon Earth, the resurrection of the regenerate to eternal life and the unregenerate to eternal damnation, and the ultimate victory of the eternal Kingdom of God.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Thanks, edited.

If you don't believe in One God baptism, you may as well believe in the Mormon baptism for the dead as well.

This is totally unfair BOOM

I have come to expect better of you.

Grouping all non-OP as having a multiple-god baptism, and equating it to Morman baptism for the dead. HUMBUG!

More evidence that being Oneness Pentecostal (for some) is about judging other Christians more than having a divergent theological perception of the nature of God.

[Barb]

A side note and off topic sorta, I saw Robert Schuller, Jr. 'baptizing' folks today...someone, his wife I think, was carrying a basin of water and he stood in front of the convert, dipped his hand in the water and placed it on their forehead.

Immersion and sprinkling I have seen, but this was a new one on me...

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Sam

For several years I have felt like I cannot in good conscience be part of a local assembly which teaches that folks who have not been baptized in Jesus' name and who have not spoken with tongues are not justified/saved/regenerated.

We stopped going to an ALJC church in the late nineteen seventies when the pastor declared in his Sunday night sermon, "The Bible says that a man is supposed to be clean shaven." I thought to myself, "What am I doing here? How can I sit here and listen to stuff like this? How can I be a part of this? Something is wrong with what we have become." The emphasis on facial hair and on hair length for men and women just turned me off. Also, at that time our pastor was leaning toward the UPC and I was afraid he might join them. At one time he asked me what I thought about the UPC and I guess I shocked him when I compared the organization to the Mafia and to the Teamsters Union. At that time there were two UPC churches in this area plus some from other organizations but I just felt like I could not be part of them either.

So, here I am, a Jesus' Name Pentecostal going to a Trinity Pentecostal church. How do I do that? Well, for one thing I am what we call a "one-stepper" here on the forum so, in my opinion, anyone who has taken that "one step" of faith in Jesus Christ is saved and is my brother or sister. As far as baptism, well, I believe that baptism should be only for a repentant believer, should be by immersion, and the name of Jesus should be mentioned, but I realize not all Christians believe that. I can accept some of my brothers and sisters who have been sprinkled, or who have had water poured on their heads three times, or who have been immersed in the FS&HG formula, or who have been baptized in Jesus' name with or without the titles of Lord and/or Christ added. I attend a local church and a couple prayer meetings in other churches where folks have been baptized in the Spirit (and I believe they have been baptized in the REAL Holy Ghost) so I am around folks who speak with tongues. My personal belief is that hair length, sleeve length, clothing styles, radio, tv, internet and a host of other stuff like that are of secondary importance and are a matter of personal opinion and conviction so I stay out of discussions like that. I doubt if many trinitarians really believe in "three gods." We all commonly believe in one God who has revealed Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and we leave it at that.

So, that's how I can go to a "trinity" church and accept the folks there.

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

With due respect to you Sam- you are one of the boards better members. You are not a Jesus-name Pentecostal. If you were, you would have issues with the FS&HG baptism.

bump for boom

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Sam

I think we are looking at what we call "The Light Doctrine" a couple of different ways.

1. Some Apostolics believe that a person is justified/saved/regenerated at faith and repentance prior to water and/or Spirit baptism. On this forum we usually designate these folks as "one-steppers." When the UPC was formed in 1945 there were "one-steppers" in that new organization and there still are. This is a valid doctrinal viewpoint among Oneness Apostolic Pentecostals. Since one-steppers believe that a person is born again at faith and repentance, anyone (regardless of church affiliation) who has made this personal commitment to Jesus is saved and part of the body of Christ. Some folks refer to this as "The Light Doctrine."

2. Others, such as S.G. Norris, G.T. Haywood, and F.E. Curts believed strongly that a person was not saved or born again until he/she had repented, been water baptized in Jesus' Name, and had received the Holy Ghost Baptism. There are many ministers who believe this way. They believe that a person is not a child of God, not in the Body of Christ, and not rapture ready unless they have experienced all of those three steps. They will not, however, categorically say that all those who have not completed those three steps will go to Hell. They believe that God will judge everyone by how well they lived up to all the light they had and if they did walk in whatever light they had, they would receive eternal life at the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-15 and Matthew 25:31-46.

Sam, point #2 is what I was taught all of my life, not just from ABI. You still believe Acts 2:38 salvation, but God will judge everyone individually based on their walk.

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

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The truth is, none of those early Oneness pioneers after 1913 ever thought that their Trinitarian friends were not saved. They only saw themselves as walking in a greater light as it was revealed to them, never questioning the salvation of those of whom they were formerly associated with who did not see the presently revealed light.

Are we now saying that those early pioneers were mistaken? I think that if they were alive today they would be appalled at some of our attitudes. What do you think?

I agree. This is obvious.
My father was saved in 1930, my mother in 1935, and the old timers did not teach the exclusivism so prevalent in the UPCI today.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

With your present three step position, how can you now say mere faith and repentance made a difference in your life? Are you now saying that at FAITH and REPENTANCE that you considered yourself walking in the LIGHT?

The question is...Were you walking in the light at FAITH and REPENTANCE?

I was an atheist. Believing in God was a huge change in my view of the world. Repentance completely changed the way I thought. My mind was no longer blinded to the life of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ. I no longer wanted to do the things I did when I walked in darkness. I thought about God all the time. I read the Bible every chance I got. I talked about God to anyone who would listen. LOL


Yes, when someone repents they are walking in the light. But that does not mean the Spirit of God was in me, He was with me.