Since the heart is only known by God, how can we be SURE?

[whollyHis]

In our humanity, we sometimes grow weary of forgiving those that profess to love us- when the same offenses happen over and over and over again...At some point, aren't they required to 'get it'? I have not seen this addressed on the thread.

I know that we are instructed to forgive 70 times 7- in one day...but, at what point is it JUST NOT WORTH the pain anymore? When you have forgiven over and over and over again...is it ever time to 'move on', in an effort to 'save' your emotional and spiritual health, or do you stick around and suffer till Jesus comes? All the while playing the role of the proverbial 'martyr'. Does the time come, when the one doing the offense actually loses respect for the one always overlooking, and forgiving?

Is it ever okay to just forgive once and for all, and then walk away and not look back? Sometimes the hurt is just too heavy to bear any longer...are we, as christians, required to offer ourselves up as a human sacrifice to those that would suck the very life from us?

Any thoughts?

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I see your point. I will have to maintain that we do carry much of the characteristics, mannerisms, thought pattern, etc. from our parents. Some draw a line when it comes to the emulation and some are just flat out mirrors of their parents. lol

I am thankful you took the negative and displayed a positive way. Some people just aren't able to get past it.

So, when I say, "there is learned behaviour", it stands to reason that it is true in many people's lives. Sad, but nonetheless, true.

I see an endless reaching for perfection that annoyed me so much in my mother coming out in me and my daughter is worse. Lord! As much as I wish I didn't have that element about me, it is there and I can't change it.

It stared at me in my face the other day in Sunday School. I made some gold crowns and one of the children was helping me with some of the jewels. I said, "Do it like this. I need it to be perfect." That's the worst thing to tell a child when you are teaching them. I couldn't take it back and knew I had that in me. Sometimes I annoy myself.

I see your point, too, PO. I guess I'm referring more to learned behavior than personality traits.

I agree, too, that some people are unable to get past it as you wrote above. But that does not remove the fact that it is their responsibility as an adult to continue to TRY to change their negative and/or sinful behavior, manner, talk, thoughts, whatever. Once they're adults, can they really continue to blame their parents? If so, who can their parents blame? The grandparents? What about them? The great-grandparents? On and on it goes.

I think each adult ultimately becomes responsible for their OWN actions. My step-dad often told me, "Well, that's how my dad raised me," or "That's what my dad always said (or did) to me." I guess I could take the same route - I could criticize and ridicule and rule over my children and blame it on my step-dad, since that's what he did to me. I don't, though; because I know it's wrong.

Does that make sense??

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Subdued

I see your point, too, PO. I guess I'm referring more to learned behavior than personality traits.

I agree, too, that some people are unable to get past it as you wrote above. But that does not remove the fact that it is their responsibility as an adult to continue to TRY to change their negative and/or sinful behavior, manner, talk, thoughts, whatever. Once they're adults, can they really continue to blame their parents? If so, who can their parents blame? The grandparents? What about them? The great-grandparents? On and on it goes.

I think each adult ultimately becomes responsible for their OWN actions. My step-dad often told me, "Well, that's how my dad raised me," or "That's what my dad always said (or did) to me." I guess I could take the same route - I could criticize and ridicule and rule over my children and blame it on my step-dad, since that's what he did to me. I don't, though; because I know it's wrong.

Does that make sense??

Sure, it makes sense. Fortunately you found a better way.

My point would be dealing with those who, as yet, have not found a better way. The guy in Rico's story was unable to grasp a better way and therefore Rico walked away from him.

So, Rico recognized the guy had learned behavior and knew he wasn't going to change him, so he walked away.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Sure, it makes sense. Fortunately you found a better way.

My point would be dealing with those who, as yet, have not found a better way. The guy in Rico's story was unable to grasp a better way and therefore Rico walked away from him.

So, Rico recognized the guy had learned behavior and knew he wasn't going to change him, so he walked away.

My opinion is that the guy in Rico's post is entirely and solely responsible for his OWN behavior, though. There may be a reason this guy exhibited the behavior he did; but I don't buy that as a legitimate excuse. The man is an adult. I don't believe for one second that he hasn't heard from somewhere that racism is wrong or bad or improper. (I believe the issue was racism - hope I'm remembering correctly.) The man won't change, because he won't change. We're not animals - we're humans. Humans have self-control, we just don't always use it. That man could choose not to open his mouth, despite how he feels inside about other races. He didn't make the right decision -- I blame him, not his father.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by whollyHis

In our humanity, we sometimes grow weary of forgiving those that profess to love us- when the same offenses happen over and over and over again...At some point, aren't they required to 'get it'? I have not seen this addressed on the thread.

I know that we are instructed to forgive 70 times 7- in one day...but, at what point is it JUST NOT WORTH the pain anymore? When you have forgiven over and over and over again...is it ever time to 'move on', in an effort to 'save' your emotional and spiritual health, or do you stick around and suffer till Jesus comes? All the while playing the role of the proverbial 'martyr'. Does the time come, when the one doing the offense actually loses respect for the one always overlooking, and forgiving?

Is it ever okay to just forgive once and for all, and then walk away and not look back? Sometimes the hurt is just too heavy to bear any longer...are we, as christians, required to offer ourselves up as a human sacrifice to those that would suck the very life from us?

Any thoughts?

There have been many different views on this thread and all have been good.

Here's mine on this one. I believe as long as you have forgiven this person for what they have done, the weight is off your shoulders. You are not responsible for them or their actions, so as long as you don't habor unforgiveness, you are in the clear.

Now, what you do watching them make the same mistake over and over again is a different story.

Sometimes TOUGH LOVE has to come into play!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Subdued

My opinion is that the guy in Rico's post is entirely and solely responsible for his OWN behavior, though. There may be a reason this guy exhibited the behavior he did; but I don't buy that as a legitimate excuse. The man is an adult. I don't believe for one second that he hasn't heard from somewhere that racism is wrong or bad or improper. (I believe the issue was racism - hope I'm remembering correctly.) The man won't change, because he won't change. We're not animals - we're humans. Humans have self-control, we just don't always use it. That man could choose not to open his mouth, despite how he feels inside about other races. He didn't make the right decision -- I blame him, not his father.

Yes, Subdued you are right. He can't blame anyone else.

The whole point of Rico's story is - He could not change the man and so he walked away.

He wasn't standing there psychoanalyzing his learned behavior.

Gotta run! Have a great day!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

There have been many different views on this thread and all have been good.

Here's mine on this one. I believe as long as you have forgiven this person for what they have done, the weight is off your shoulders. You are not responsible for them or their actions, so as long as you don't habor unforgiveness, you are in the clear.

Now, what you do watching them make the same mistake over and over again is a different story.

Sometimes TOUGH LOVE has to come into play!

This is true, Renda.

I remember a woman in church that had hurt me. I went up to her to apologize for anything on my part - knowing - she wouldn't apologize for her part.

She didn't, but I felt a weight lifted because I didn't carry a grudge around. She could do what she wanted with it, but I was released.

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Yes, Subdued you are right. He can't blame anyone else.

The whole point of Rico's story is - He could not change the man and so he walked away.

He wasn't standing there psychoanalyzing his learned behavior.

Gotta run! Have a great day!

I approve of how Rico handled it, BTW, FWIW. LOL

I only responded because it appeared as though the man was being given an excuse for his behavior, with which I disagreed.

Seems the issue is settled between you and I now. Good! haha...

Catch ya later!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Subdued

I approve of how Rico handled it, BTW, FWIW. LOL

I only responded because it appeared as though the man was being given an excuse for his behavior, with which I disagreed.

Seems the issue is settled between you and I now. Good! haha...

Catch ya later!

I'm not sure I saw that anyone was excusing him. Just understanding that Rico had no other alternative than to walk away because he understood the man had some issues - learned behavior. Which means - he knew he wasn't going to change him and tanning his hide wasn't going to do it either. Too bad, though. J/K!!!!

Yes, we have settled it - no excuses for the bad boy!

Okay, I'm out. I hate fixing my hair!!!! Talk at you later!!!

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Subdued

I approve of how Rico handled it, BTW, FWIW. LOL

I only responded because it appeared as though the man was being given an excuse for his behavior, with which I disagreed.

Seems the issue is settled between you and I now. Good! haha...

Catch ya later!

A reason is not an excuse, Subdued. Bro X was a bigot because he learned it from his dad. He stayed a bigot of his own free will, but he learned it from his dad. Prejudice is a very difficult thing to uproot. It's one of those "only God can fix it" things.