Do we have to pay tithes?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Like most threads on AFF these days, this is much ado about nothing.
Whether you believe in paying a tithe or a tithe and offering or whatever.
Does anyone really believe that if a believer never gives one dime to the church, they will be saved?

This is the classic dodge. If it is not ten percent then it is nothing. Giving to the church is actually done on a sliding scale, to be scriptural. It could easily range from fifty percent to a negative amount. If someone is given to by the church, does that mean that they should tithe on what they are given? Some people are net takers from the church, and that is entirely appropriate. A lot of these people are pastors. Maybe a higher percentage should be widows, orphans . . .

Originally Posted by aegsm76

For where your treasure is there will your heart be also.
As I said before, in the OT you had to pay your tithe and also the various offerings.
If you did that you were clean in the eyes of the law.

I assume that you realize that there were a lot of things done differently in the OT. We are under a new covenant now. For instance, explain what tithing was in the OT, and contrast it with what it is now.

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Now, if you see your brother in need and do not help, than it does not matter how much tithes you have paid.

I heartily agree. I think giving to the corporate church is nothing more than cost-sharing. The trouble is that everyone believes it should be equal, and it never will be, and it never should be. Get used to it. Jesus said the poor you have with you always. One of the signs that Jesus gave when the followers of John the Baptist asked if He was the messiah: The poor have the gospel preached to them. We need to be careful how we treat the poor. If the poor is a preacher, this rule still applies.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

His use of, "All scripture..." prohibits him from all sorts of stuff that I am sure that he indulges... He can't eat bacon.

Or bar-b-q pork ribs, but he explains how that is ok.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

If you are paying your tithes out of fear, then I doubt God honors that anyway.

For real!! I don't believe anyone even does that. It won't carry them long, at some point they are going to make a excuse why to not have to do It anyway!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I think it can mean several things EB. One being that they have not been taught very well.

That probably is not what you had in mind. EB, you believe that I don't understand tithe very well. I get that. But I may understand tithing better than you think.

Oh, that's because you're nick is TITHEMISTER!!!!

I have a friend who cannot for the life of him talk about anything else but the Mark of the Beast computer chip and barcode. We have known each other for a long time. I have other friends who call him Brother Mark of the Beast. I love him, but he will wear you down and out on that issue. You and he would be talking about tithing and all of a sudden you would find yourself discussing Revelation 16:2, Revelation 13:12, Revelation 13:15, Revelation 14:9, and Revelation 19:20. But like you, he will say that he understands the mark of the beast better than I think he does. That, my man is because it is his pet peeve, like tithing is your's. You and he, and a score of others like you both have teachings which are near and dear because you see them as more important than maybe anything else in that Bible. That's just my own opinion. But may I add that religion, teachings, doctrines, have to be processed through the regular rank and file people. Sweet little old ladies and old men who haven't the foggiest idea what a mark of the beast is, what 666 actually means. Tithe is an offering to them, of any percentage, they give what they can when they can. But then some cape crusader comes along either concerning eschatology or ecclesiastical finance and spends about two hours over a pulpit cleaning their hide. When you look out over the congregation the young people might be digging it, but the older elderly brothers and sisters are fast asleep. Are they going to hell? Seriously, are they going to hell because they call a freewill offering a tithe? Or they don't know what 666 means? I had a brother, tell a younger brother that he couldn't drink a Monster Energy drink because when the young brother tip it up to drink the claw marks create the number 666. Believe I understand your pain, but I think you are straining at a gnat, but will only ed up with a camel landing right on your head.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Remember when you thought that we were exaggerating when we said that pastors were preaching tithing or hell? You discovered that we were truthful about that, didn't you? I realize that you have been sheltered from this doctrine of tithe or hell. It doesn't mean it didn't exist, simply because you hadn't heard of it, does it?

Thank God that we post on a forum, and we can go back and read our posts. No, I said that I never heard it before. But I have heard it now. So, what does that change? That changes that I never heard someone say what the elder had said. My opinions still remain the same, but I deal with people every day, not just words on a Bible study sheet. I'm telling you now Hoss, you may not have it all together "doctrinally" book, chapter, and verse. But you want MeeMaw and PeePaw to get a revelation that they need to change a word, to suit you doctrinally? These people aren't calling One God the Trinity, they are giving freewill offerings and calling it tithing. But not a 10% the way you understand it.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

People think that the doctrine of tithing is what it has been for thousands of years. Why do they think that? Because they don't know. The practice of tithing money instead of agricultural products is less than two hundred years old according to what I have studied. People that know that the tithe was reinstated in the sixth century, mostly assume that it was reinstated as money. It wasn't. It was reinstated as agricultural products. The problem with what you don't know is, that you don't know what you don't know.

Bro, they aren't doing that, they are giving offerings, but they just call it tithing. It may be done by percentage, but most of the times it isn't. they are not muzzling their ox and allowing the minister to feed.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Tithing is assumed to be what it is and that it will not change. I have found that this is not true. Instead I have found that tithing has been in a constant state of change for about fifteen hundred years.

Bro, the Roman Catholics and Eastern Greek Orthodox churches don't tithe. But their history is one of making more money then any other group on earth. Jewish synagogues have no tithing, but the Rabbi drives a Lincoln. Would you like me to name some super wealthy Gurus? Seriously.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

So when you ask me if I know what it means when people don't even realize that the tithe is ten percent, to me it means that the false doctrine of tithing where you are is not as mature as it is in other areas.

What does it mean to you?

Bro, where I am? Bro, these are people all over the place. the offering systems in church family differ from preacher to preacher. But, if someone is giving ten percent as their freewill offering, then what do you want them to do? Give less? Give more? You see where this is going?

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I think it can mean several things EB. One being that they have not been taught very well.

That probably is not what you had in mind. EB, you believe that I don't understand tithe very well. I get that. But I may understand tithing better than you think.

Remember when you thought that we were exaggerating when we said that pastors were preaching tithing or hell? You discovered that we were truthful about that, didn't you? I realize that you have been sheltered from this doctrine of tithe or hell. It doesn't mean it didn't exist, simply because you hadn't heard of it, does it?

People think that the doctrine of tithing is what it has been for thousands of years. Why do they think that? Because they don't know. The practice of tithing money instead of agricultural products is less than two hundred years old according to what I have studied. People that know that the tithe was reinstated in the sixth century, mostly assume that it was reinstated as money. It wasn't. It was reinstated as agricultural products. The problem with what you don't know is, that you don't know what you don't know.

Tithing is assumed to be what it is and that it will not change. I have found that this is not true. Instead I have found that tithing has been in a constant state of change for about fifteen hundred years.

So when you ask me if I know what it means when people don't even realize that the tithe is ten percent, to me it means that the false doctrine of tithing where you are is not as mature as it is in other areas.

What does it mean to you?

No one said you tithe or go to hell. That's not what he said bro. He said 1+1=2, which he is not wrong about. Because if 1+1=2 in the context and light of the scripture I've stated over and over again, it could be a salvational issue. In light of that. Not because you didn't pay your tithes! Because God said it was robbing and stealing from Him, and you are not doing it, then that is fair to say you are stealing for the scripture says the samething, and the scripture says where thieves and robbers end up.

Personally I see that as the samething. Anything that's Holy unto God is and always is. Holy is God's nature. Its semantics to sit here and talk about what was given. But a principal was given, take care of the ministry. I do that through faith, because I see that in history it displeased Him so that He said the whole nation was robbing Him.

If the scripture can't be unbroken, and we hold all scripture as inspired by God, I take that as moral law bro. I learned of what God liked and despised there. I will do it regardless, because I like being a co laborer with the Lord. He knows He can trust me with my finances.

You guys are twisting what he said. As well as bending the scripture, to mean what you want it to mean. Ijs. I presented proof and all I heard was this context this, and this context that. When I made a point you went quiet. Most ultimately it's up to you tithes are a personal thing between you and God. So I'll let Him judge. But there's much more scripture concerning what I'm saying then the opposite way. I'll leave it at that though. Because there is nothing you can present to me. All you can present is opinions. That's not a leg to stand on. Approval of others may make you feel ok, unless the ones approving are also wrong too.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

You guys are twisting what he said. As well as bending the scripture, to mean what you want it to mean.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Bro, giving is never a false doctrine.

Even the rankest sinner understands that.

I was referring to pseudo-tithing being taught as doctrine, not giving.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

3 sets of laws...
Ok.

Again, why didn't the early church Apostles tell the new Gentile converts about this? The concept he is espousing is not spelled out ANYWHERE in the New Testament. Or am I wrong?

Your wrong Google it. It's Theological theory it's taught in seminaries. It is true look it up. There's civil laws, ceremonial laws, and moral laws.
"Ceremonial Law: This type of law relates to Israel's worship. (Lev 1:1-13) The laws pointed forward to Jesus Christ and were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. Though we are no longer bound to them, the principles behind the ceremonial laws, that is to worship and love God, still apply.
Civil Law: This law dictated Israel's daily living (Deut 24:10-11); but modern society and culture are so radically different that some of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles behind the commands are used to guide our conduct.
Moral Law: The moral laws are direct commands of God. A good example are the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17). The moral laws reveal the nature and will of God, and still apply to us today. We do not obey this moral law as a way to obtain salvation, but to live in ways pleasing to God."

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I'm not talking about you brother.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

No one said you tithe or go to hell. That's not what he said bro. He said 1+1=2, which he is not wrong about. Because if 1+1=2 in the context and light of the scripture I've stated over and over again, it could be a salvational issue. In light of that. Not because you didn't pay your tithes! Because God said it was robbing and stealing from Him, and you are not doing it, then that is fair to say you are stealing for the scripture says the samething, and the scripture says where thieves and robbers end up.



He was speaking to a specific nation and a specific tithe, not the tithe you've invented.


Personally I see that as the samething. Anything that's Holy unto God is and always is.


Until he abolishes or replaces it. Why does this seem to slip through your mind?


Holy is God's nature. Its semantics to sit here and talk about what was given. But a principal was given, take care of the ministry. I do that through faith, because I see that in history it displeased Him so that He said the whole nation was robbing Him.

If the scripture can't be unbroken, and we hold all scripture as inspired by God, I take that as moral law bro. I learned of what God liked and despised there. I will do it regardless, because I like being a co laborer with the Lord. He knows He can trust me with my finances.

You guys are twisting what he said. As well as bending the scripture, to mean what you want it to mean. Ijs. I presented proof and all I heard was this context this, and this context that. When I made a point you went quiet. Most ultimately it's up to you tithes are a personal thing between you and God. So I'll let Him judge. But there's much more scripture concerning what I'm saying then the opposite way. I'll leave it at that though. Because there is nothing you can present to me. All you can present is opinions. That's not a leg to stand on. Approval of others may make you feel ok, unless the ones approving are also wrong too.