Why I Am A Futurist

[Michael The Disciple]

Did you ever consider how the entire concept of a future tribulation period around which the rapture is supposed to occur to drop people into three categories... pre trib rapture, mid trib rapture or post trib rapture... is entirely based upon a mythical GAP between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel? And yet Daniel 9 mentions NOTHING ABOUT IT!

Hey Mike,

Can you find a quote somewhere on this Forum where I say I accept what you call the "gap" theory?

How about where I try to prove the great tribulation is 7 years? Or where I say anything about Daniels 70th week?

I will save you some time. You wont find any of it.

I do not base my belief on any of these things.

A long time ago I read "The Coming Prince" by Sir Robert Anderson which was supposed to explain the 70 weeks. By the time I got done as I recall I felt no satisfaction about it.

Granted I was not more than a year old in Jesus at the time but I dont remember getting anything solid from it.

Various times I have looked at someones timeline and they never seem to hit the mark on the dates. So I personally have staked nothing on claims about Daniels weeks.

If you think you have a timeline that explains the 70 weeks including dates I would like to see it. Also is there any scripture in the Bible that says Jesus earthly ministry was 3.5 years?

[Michael The Disciple]

Your very first [post said

Quote:
since all this happened in 70 AD WHO ARE WE? It seems as if all of us Christians since 70 ad got LEFT BEHIND!

And that is a question here 270 pages later that has not been answered. Not even an attempt. The question was asked to FULL PRETERISTS.

You say you are not one. Your partial preterist belief has the same effect as pre trib rapture. Jesus could come any day. Full Prets say he came in 70ad. To me this leaves us with no blessed hope. No future coming of Jesus Christ.

Nothing to stand on to believe in.

BECAUSE THE SCRIPTURES WERE WRITTEN TO PEOPLE WHO ALREADY WENT TO HEAVEN TO BE WITH JESUS! NOT TO US!

We can put no hope in them because they were not written to nor addressed to us.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Lafon

NO!

Care to get into the discussion? Could you give some particulars of your belief, I am curious?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Sean, Adam Clarke was not a preterist, he agreed with the historical interpretation of prophecy. The preterist archive has stuff from every viewpoint under the sun.

I realize that bro.

Adam Clarke just had a fantastic imagination(as was the case of the "lightning" passage I posted) and the preterist got ideas from him.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Hey bro. I just finished reading Adam Clarks' commentary on a preterist website....You better hope I dont start tearing into it on this thread and expose this ridiculous concept.
The man even dared to replace Jesus with the Roman armies in the coming of Christ passage!...(as the lightning comes from east to the west)..... Heres what the Bible says about the Coming of Jesus...

Matthew 24:27King James Version (KJV)

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus is coming like lightning!



The preterist says the Roman armies are coming like lightning....


Verse 27. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west— It is worthy of remark that our Lord, in the most particular manner, points out the very march of the Roman army: they entered into Judea on the EAST, and carried on their conquest WESTWARD, as if not only the extensiveness of the ruin, but the very route which the army would take, were intended in the comparison of the lightning issuing from the east, and shining to the west.....

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...4cTfDsRMevJd1Q


Unbelievable....the preterists have the nerve to replace Jesus our Lords' coming in the passage with the Roman armies coming!

Here it is...if the preterists post it on their PRETERIST ARCHIVE site, this is obviously what they believe.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sean

Here it is...if the preterists post it on their PRETERIST ARCHIVE site, this is obviously what they believe.

Unbelievable.

[Bowas]

Some have in times past questioned how to or even question the concept of strict adherence of letting scripture interpret scripture.

What Bro Blume has done here is a perfect example how one accomplishes that instead of just letting ones imagination run wild as to what the scriptures apparently or even must mean, as it only matters what the scriptures in fact do mean.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Good Samaritan,

Did you ever consider how the entire concept of a future tribulation period around which the rapture is supposed to occur to drop people into three categories... pre trib rapture, mid trib rapture or post trib rapture... is entirely based upon a mythical GAP between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel? And yet Daniel 9 mentions NOTHING ABOUT IT!

In fact, Daniel was told there would be 70 weeks... 490 years... in which God would do six things. And without a note about any GAP inserted ANYWHERE in the weeks, futurism comes waltzing along and says two thousand years plus has been inserted between the 69th and 70th weeks.

That's like me telling you that I will see yo in four weeks, and insert ten years between the 3rd and 4th weeks without telling you!

The simple truth is there was no gap.

Daniel 9:25-27 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

After the 62 plus 7 weeks (69) MESSIAH WOULD COME. Jesus came! in the midst of the 70th week, he would be CUT OFF but not for Himself. That means His life would be cut short, for OUR salvation. He, NOT ANTICHRIST, would CONFIRM, NOT CREATE, a covenant with Israel for ONE WEEK. CONFIRM that is.

And what happened, Jesus died 3.5 years after He came preaching - in the midst of the 70th week -- and caused sacrifices to CEASE by being the last sacrifice God would ever accept, and 3.5 years after that, the FIRST GENTILES CAME IN in Acts 10, ensuring that the entire 70 weeks were FOR ISRAEL.

The New Testament uses these terms and shows they were fulfilled!

Hebrews 10:1-2 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

futurists says the HE in Dan 9:27 is antichrist, and yet whoever it is CONFIRMS not CREATES a covenant, with necessity for the antichrist to CREATE one if it IS antichrist this is speaking about. But when you read verses 28-29 you see the MESSIAH is the subject and was the HE who confirmed the covenant. Futurism has that so messed up I cannot begin to describe it.

And the six things God did in the seventy weeks are as follows:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

JESUS DID ALL OF THAT ALREADY!

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

It's all right there!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hey Mike,

Can you find a quote somewhere on this Forum where I say I accept what you call the "gap" theory?

How about where I try to prove the great tribulation is 7 years? Or where I say anything about Daniels 70th week?

I will save you some time. You wont find any of it.

I do not base my belief on any of these things.

A long time ago I read "The Coming Prince" by Sir Robert Anderson which was supposed to explain the 70 weeks. By the time I got done as I recall I felt no satisfaction about it.

Granted I was not more than a year old in Jesus at the time but I dont remember getting anything solid from it.

Various times I have looked at someones timeline and they never seem to hit the mark on the dates. So I personally have staked nothing on claims about Daniels weeks.

If you think you have a timeline that explains the 70 weeks including dates I would like to see it. Also is there any scripture in the Bible that says Jesus earthly ministry was 3.5 years?

The fact is that anyone who believes in a future "7 year" tribulation period gets it from the gap whether they see the connection or got it from someone else who did. No where else. Yes, it's that pivotal. If you never stated a position on the 70 weeks that is of no consequence if you believe there is a future 7 year trib period. You see, brother, the future 7 year trib period theory CAME FROM the gap theory. Where else is a future 7 year period stemmed from? So, the real question is do you believe in a seven year future trib period. If so, where did you get it from? If you do believe in it, but never made a point about the 70 weeks issue, then you got it from someone who does believe the 70 weeks issue. Either way it is based upon the gap theory.

The entire, and I mean ENTIRE, future trib belief is based upon this gap theory. It is pivotal for you to nail your conclusions down about the 70th week. It is THE KEY FACTOR in the entire futurist position. Once that is known to have no gap, then the whole house of cards of futurism falls down.

You asked me where I got the 3.5 years span of Christ's ministry. Christ covered three Passovers in the gospels. And it is intrinsically linked to the first 3.5 years of Daniel's 70th week. Jesus would come after 69 weeks. And it's so significant because it is THE ONLY TIMEFRAME explicitly laid out in precise years.

Anyone who studies the issue could never believe in a gap theory except the person whose imagination went wild and concocted it. The weeks are focused around the cross, as everything int he bible should, anyway.

So, for you to have held and proclaimed such a strong stance on POST TRIB which circles around the tribulation period being future, and yet have not even came to a conclusion on the 70 weeks, is like preaching Christ and not making a conclusion on the cross. Really.

I know you enough-- not much -- to say you can come to a conclusion. And you should realize it is absolutely vital.

My thoughts, anyway.*

[mfblume]

God used the Assyrians AS HIS ROD OF HIS ANGER. So when the Assyrians afflicted Jerusalem, it was GOD doing so. What's the big deal?

Isaiah 10:5-6 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. (6) I will send him against an hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets.

[mfblume]

These three Passovers occur in the three years of Jesus' earthly ministry. John alone recorded the three separate Passover celebrations. John mentions the first in John 2, the second Passover in 6:4 and the third one in 11:55; 12:1; 13:1; 18:28, 39; and 19:14. This third Passover was the one that occurred on the night before Jesus died, and it is the one recorded by all four Gospel writers in conjunction with the Last Supper and the death of Jesus.