Why I Left the UPC

[answers]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Free in Christ has zero to do with facial hair.

and facial has has zero to do with Christ.

[answers]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I do NOT say anyone is going to hell for wearing facial hair, they just ain't going to heaven from here.

No sir, if you're leading them in the manner which you describe I suppose heaven is only a drink of kool-aid away....

Originally Posted by Margies3

So in YOUR church, YOU get to decide who makes it to Heaven and who doesn't? Gee, I always thought that was GOD's job.

and they think they are being cute and witty when they come up with those little remarks...

sadly, in all seriousness, they are sealing their own fate when judgement day arrives.

this portion of scripture comes to mind when I think of poor epley and his group....

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.

[Stephanas]

Originally Posted by answers

Congrats!!!! The UPCI is a failed system as are any other orgs or "fellowships". Churches fall prey to this as well when they develop a legal system which dictates what kind of relationship you can have with God based on ideas not within his Word.

Hilarious, simply and completely hilarious.

Thank you for giving me a good chuckle first thing in the morning.

As the story goes, it's usually the emperor who has no clothes, but today it's the little boy.

[John 1:17]

Originally Posted by answers

Congrats!!!! The UPCI is a failed system as are any other orgs or "fellowships". Churches fall prey to this as well when they develop a legal system which dictates what kind of relationship you can have with God based on ideas not within his Word.

Please, I beg you, do not speak so visciously of God's church...

[answers]

Originally Posted by John 1:17

Please, I beg you, do not speak so visciously of God's church...

People commit murder and acts of terror in the name of God with organized religion as there backing.

Organizations of any type when it comes to religion is nothing short of a cult. As suspected their participants will be in denial. They are swallowed up by it.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by answers

People commit murder and acts of terror in the name of God with organized religion as there backing.

Organizations of any type when it comes to religion is nothing short of a cult. As suspected their participants will be in denial. They are swallowed up by it.

Your statement I have highlighted is absurd. If you want credibility on this forum you might want to not go over the top like this. It makes me discount everything else you say if you really believe this nonsense.

[answers]

Originally Posted by CC1

Your statement I have highlighted is absurd. If you want credibility on this forum you might want to not go over the top like this. It makes me discount everything else you say if you really believe this nonsense.

So are simply going to respond in that my opinions are over the top or are you going to deliver your ideas on why my opinion may be wrong?

This is a discussion forum?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by answers

So are simply going to respond in that my opinions are over the top or are you going to deliver your ideas on why my opinion may be wrong?

This is a discussion forum?

You were the one that made the assertion without giving a reason why organizations are a cult. You merely stated it but did not substantiate it

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by acjcpastor

Now, let me clarify myself before you all go nuts on me. I don’t shave to be effeminate, if I did, that would be sinful. On the other hand, while I feel full liberty in Christ to grow a beard, if I grew one just to be spiteful to my apostolic brethren, then I think that would be sinful as well.

While there remain a few jobs where a man can’t wear a beard (like an airline pilot because the oxygen mask must seal to his face in an emergency) very few interviewers today would discount a job applicant because of facial hair. They’d know that they could be facing a discrimination lawsuit over the issue.

We the church are fishing in a whole different pond than our brothers and sisters were a generation ago. Not only that, but the fish have evolved and they don’t bite that same bait like they used to. That same guy today who would sue a potential employer for discrimination isn’t going to just shave off his beard to conform because you’re the pastor and you say so. People today want truth and they want to see it in black and white. If you can explain being clean shaven to him from the Word, more power to ya. But I ain’t going there cause I read more reasons to have a beard than to shave it off. That’s just the facts.

In the 1950 and even 60’s most women wore dresses. I’d say that all of the little girls I went to 1st grade with wouldn’t have been caught dead having to wear pants like a boy to school. For many ladies of that era, putting on slacks was a bold and daring move. And for some, it meant having to have a sinful attitude in order to even consider doing such a thing. For the same reasons why the apostolic movement took a stand against beards on men, they took a stand against pants on ladies. It was associated, even in a worldly society as being out there on the edge and any good conservative knows you ain’t supposed to go there. It was associated with rebellion, plain and simple.

However, here we are in 2011 and it just isn’t that plain and simple anymore. Most little girls going to 1st grade today haven’t ever put on a dress, never mind owned one. Nobody in “the world” today thinks of a women in slacks as being edgy or rebellious or “out there.” But there remains a generation of Apostolic ladies who took a stand years ago, based on a reasonable conviction of the time. And the same is true about men who took a stand against growing a beard.

I think we all need to apply the principle of Romans chapter 14, especially verses 13-21 today. If you ask me, this is the main reason why many of our apostolic sisters haven’t given all there skirts to the Goodwill and started wearing slacks. Is it really worth creating a church split over? Can’t I honor my brother or sister’s conviction without throwing my liberties in their face?

I pray the apostolic movement will someday mature beyond its petty-mindedness. We really need to be more mindful of our own attitudes when we start flaunting our liberties without regard for the “if, ands, and whys” of other peoples convictions.

I’ve probably written too much already but this is the bottom line; It grieves me to know of so many people over the years that have been pushed away from truth because we’ve allowed our arrogant attitudes, so contrary to the teaching of the apostles, to prevail. I pray that these men and women who say, “because I’m the pastor and that’s why” without having any biblical basis, will one day wake up and realize that they are going to have to answer to God for the damages they’ve done.

EXCELLENT post!

[CC1]

Originally Posted by answers

So are simply going to respond in that my opinions are over the top or are you going to deliver your ideas on why my opinion may be wrong?

This is a discussion forum?

See Praxes post after your one here for my response. I am not the one who has made a mega overarching assertion that exceeds the bounds of rationality.

If you are going to state that "Organizations of any type when it comes to religion is nothing short of a cult." the burden is on you to substantiate the claim.

I have to believe that upon reflection surely you have to see that your statement is over reaching.