How Important is Truth? - Page 28

SDG · #**271** 04-12-2007, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm not sure what you mean by a vertical rite, but the Spirit of God moves when we call on Jesus' name in water baptism.

28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

I meant horizontal.

now ...circumcision ....by the Spirit ... hmm............... done inwardly

Now please tell me how you leaped from this verse to it happening when we call on Jesus name in the water????

#**272** 04-12-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darty

Ok so if God holds us accountable for what we know...then why send out Missionaries preachers apostles and so on... cause if we preach it to them and they deny it then we have damed them to hell ...

Because Jesus commanded us to go into all the world and preach the gospel. We are in this world as Christ's ambassadors - sent to enemy territory to communicate one message: be reconciled to God.

Quote:

Truth is important.
Our truth isn't important but His truth is.

The only truth is His truth - man's truth is just a cheap imitation.

Quote:

If baptism formula wasn't important then why did they have to be rebaptised?
on the other hand if we thought it was part of salvation why don't we thow them in the tub as soon as they get to church?

Baptism is important but the saving power is not in the baptism, it's in the grace of God as displayed in Jesus' propitiating work on the cross.

#**273** 04-12-2007, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Dude...start BACK at the beginning please. Im asking rhetorical questions about TRUTH not baptism and using Baptism to explore TRUTH. I am pointing out that if it is NOT the truth (hypothetical as evidenced by the word IF) that baptism is to be done by repeating the truine forumula THEN (an If Then statement, something you learn in logic and programming/math) THEN what might the conclusion be? Is it about baptism the correct way? NO. Ok. Im tired of telling you that. It's about whether or NOT something that is NOT done in truth, like maybe baptism, really matters as far as TRUTH is concerned. How much TRUTH do we need..not "how should we be baptized" and to enhance your comprehension of that point I told you I could be talking about any other subject including preterism...

If preterism is NOT "The truth" then how will that affect those that believe something that is NOT the truth? Just how much does having or knowing or obeying the truth play into things?

Understand?

Maybe you should write it the way you mean it! But to answer your question, true is true and false is false and never the twain shall meet.

#**274** 04-12-2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Homework #4

When Jesus healed the sick ... what did he say 'SAVED' them?

Now, go to the Greek for those passages and find out what the Greek word means that was translated "saved."

The Greek word is sozo and it means the following:

1. to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

one (from injury or peril)
1. to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
2. to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
to save in the technical biblical sense
1. negatively 1b
to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment 1b
to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance

mizpeh · #**275** 04-12-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I meant horizontal.

now ...circumcision ....by the Spirit ... hmm............... done inwardly

Now please tell me how you leaped from this verse to it happening when we call on Jesus name in the water????

Dan,

I thought you knew these verses. I should have elaborated since you can't read my mind.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead

The Spirit performs a circumcision of our heart in water baptism. Putting off the body of the sins of the flesh/washing away sin/remission of sin. It doesn't say it in these verses but the blood of Jesus Christ is what is involved. Go back and read RevDWW's post for more scripture.

Jesus is the name of the Spirit. (Hello, are you with me?) When you call on the name of Jesus, you INVOKE His Spirit. Just like if I call out the name, Dan, hopefully, you will answer me. The name is not magical nor does it only designate 'authority'.

mizpeh · #**276** 04-12-2007, 09:46 AM

[QUOTE=Daniel Alicea;72757]I meant horizontal.[QUOTE]

What is a horizontal rite?

mizpeh · #**277** 04-12-2007, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrford

Anyone besides me ever heard the word "futility?"

Ec 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

A seed takes time to bring forth fruit.

SDG · #**278** 04-12-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Dan,

I thought you knew these verses. I should have elaborated since you can't read my mind.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead

The Spirit performs a circumcision of our heart in water baptism. Putting off the body of the sins of the flesh/washing away sin/remission of sin. It doesn't say it in these verses but the blood of Jesus Christ is what is involved. Go back and read RevDWW's post for more scripture.

Jesus is the name of the Spirit. (Hello, are you with me?) When you call on the name of Jesus, you INVOKE His Spirit. Just like if I call out the name, Dan, hopefully, you will answer me. The name is not magical nor does it only designate 'authority'.

Let's back track .. who says Colossians is speaking of water baptism ... You or the baptismal regenerationist doctrine???/

Praxeas · #**279** 04-12-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Homework #1 ...

How many references are there to faith ... in the NT?
as compared to baptism?

How many references are there to faith....in the NT as compared to repentance? I am convinced most Christians don't have a clue what it means to have faith nor what the bible means when it says we are not saved by works, which we are not.

Quote:

Homework #2

Use your Greek to find out what 'born again' means in John 1?

It means born from above

Quote:

Homework #3
In John3... Why does the born of the water statement ..mentioned once ... while being born of the Spirit ... seems to take precedence .... after he makes born of water and Spirit statement

And what specifically does Jesus say will bring eternal life?

Maybe Nicodemus understood born of water and did not have a clue what born of Spirit meant

Specifically? Jesus says born of water, born of Spirit and "believing in me"

Quote:

Homework #4

When Jesus healed the sick ... what did he say 'SAVED' them?

He said you faith has saved you, referring to healing. So does that mean we don't need to repent?

BTW I can see the discussion on truth has switched to arguing doctrine.

Praxeas · #**280** 04-12-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

It is such a fun journey watching and recording the words of folks on the Hardline highway. The highway which has no yield signs only read lights.

Then to watch the change as the hardliners realize that the "grip" of the non-heaven bound electives "can" be dropped.

Can you explain what you mean? Neither Dan nor I am a hardliner. He is a liberal and I am a conservative.